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New Actually
No, I cannot stop someone from looking at me. All I can do is to stop them from recording my image

Currently, legally and technically, you can do neither.

Don't like it...change the law... But baring that you should say "I should be able to stop people from recording my image", not "can do"


Because photographic evidence is LEGAL evidence.

Whereas your picture you painted from scenes you witnessed IS NOT!


but my eyewitness testimony *is* LEGAL evidence
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New Already addressed in your previous post.
"Currently, legally and technically, you can do neither."

Yep.

"legal" == "right"

Thanks for your participation.
New yawn
Doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, intentional homonym confusion doen't get you anywhere

But just for grins, you say you can stop it. I'm curious how you think you can currently, technically. Otherwise you're just living in a fantasy where what you want to happen has already happened
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New Re: yawn
Otherwise you're just living in a fantasy where what you want to happen has already happened

That seems to sum up his counters quite concisely.

Addison
New It's called "reading with comprehension".
"But just for grins, you say you can stop it. I'm curious how you think you can currently, technically. Otherwise you're just living in a fantasy where what you want to happen has already happened"

Hmmmm, did you miss the part where I said that this wasn't a CURRENT law?

Did you?

Is it even REMOTELY possible that you missed ALL of my posts where I said that this was not a CURRENT law?

Well, if you didn't miss those posts, why is it that you STILL don't understand that I realize it is NOT a CURRENT law?

I've SPECIFICALLY stated MULTIPLE times that I REALIZE IT IS NOT A CURRENT LAW.

There, I've even done it again. Specifically directed at YOU.

Now, for some reason, I have the feeling that you're NOT going to be able to grasp that rather simple statement.

I don't believe in Santa Clause.

I don't believe in the Easter Bunny.

I don't believe this is a current law.

So. If it is not a CURRENT law, but it is a RIGHT that is inherent in every person, what do we do?

Hmmmmmmmmm.

What do we do?

It seems an impossible situation.

How do you handle a current right that is not recognized by the current authority?

Well. You've got me stumped there.

I really have no idea how to handle that.

I guess my position is fatally flawed.

I guess I was wrong all along.

You two are right.
New Whoa! Here's a radical thought!
I was thinking over it and I thought back to the other examples I had posted and I thought....

Well, you know how I was talking about people freeing slaves when it was illegal?

And how the US revolution was illegal?

Well, I was thinking, why no do something like they did?

Why not continue doing what I believe is right AND get the law changed?

Is that fucking radical or what?

Now, I'd still be a "criminal", but the rights I have inherent would be recognized by the authorities.

Gee, I don't know WHY I didn't think of that sooner.
New Been waiting for that one
I was curious when you would put all the pieces together.

If...rights are only expressable through the whim of those in power to grant or deny your expression of them.

and if there is a difference between moral righteousness and legal rights

and if you think a morally righteous thing should be a legal right

Then the only two morally right courses of action are a) legal change and b) civil disobedience. (and I mentioned a) a long time ago and b) not too long ago also )

Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
Expand Edited by Fearless Freep Aug. 14, 2001, 04:56:03 PM EDT
New I was much older then, I'm younger than that now.
"I was curious when you would put all the pieces together."

I was hoping for better, but it was just a silly hope.

"If...rights are only expressable through the whim of those in power to grant or deny your expression of them."

No. All that the government can do is to facilitate their expression or punish their expression.

"and if there is a difference between moral righteousness and legal rights"

Yes, there is.

"and if you think a morally righteous thing should be a legal right"

That would be ideal.

"Then the only two morally right courses of action are a) legal change and b) civil disobedience. (and I mentioned a) a long time ago and b) not too long ago also )"

Hmmmmmm, why don't you try doing a search on my postings about painting cameras?

Then check the dates on those posts.

Today, you arrived at "civil disobedience" as a means to achieve my goals.

Which was my original posting, many many many moons ago.

New because
Which was my original posting, many many many moons ago.

If you look at my first post to you you said

"You cannot photograph me.

You cannot film me."

and I merely pointed out that I could indeed photgraph and film you currently, technically, legally. I didn't care if you would use civil disobedience or try to change the law. My only point is that you say "cannot" to what is currently very much a "can". and it's your use of a verb tense to insist that *right now* it cannot be done when what you really seem to mean is that yuo wish it couldn't be done or you'd like it not to be done or wouldn't it be nice if it wasn't done or whatever you really mean, your statement is wrong. That was it
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New You cannot shoot me.
You cannot stab me.

You cannot kick me.

You cannot beat me with a stick.

Ah, you think. But I can. I can't do it legally, but I can still do it.

And, under the correct circumstances, I can even do it legally.

Context, Jay. Context.
New Too bad the posting lacks said same.
Hmmmm, did you miss the part where I said that this wasn't a CURRENT law?
Did you?


Nope.

Nor did I miss how you've stated it as the current case for weeks now.

Are you retracting all of those? (including all of those implied sighs and "will we have to do this all over again"?)

Cause.. either its one, or its the other.

Well, if you didn't miss those posts, why is it that you STILL don't understand that I realize it is NOT a CURRENT law?

Because until your posts about an hour ago - you've spoken as that it IS.

Of course, our reading comprehension is exceeded only by our memory.

Addison
New No kidding
Hmmmm, did you miss the part where I said that this wasn't a CURRENT law?

Nope, and that was my point. I said you couldn't currently legally or technically do what you claimed to be able to do (and yes, your use of language, especially present tense verb sense, was a direct claim that you could stop it *now*)

Since you disagreed with me saying that you couldn't do it, I assumed that meant you think you can do it, so I asked how. Since you come back and say you can't do it legally currently, you've just agreed with my original point that you couldn't do it legally currently. Thank you

Here's the process...a bit slower

Brandioch:All I can do is to stop them from recording my image.

Jay: Currently, legally and technically, you can do neither.

Brandioch: "legal" == "right"

Jay: I'm curious how you think you can currently, technically.

Brandioch: Hmmmm, did you miss the part where I said that this wasn't a CURRENT law?


Notice that your last line says the the same as my first?

Incidentally, I asked how you could do it *technically* because I figured you might willing to break the law in a exercise of civil disobediance to claim your right. Now you have no technical answer and throw your hands up about the legal issue so your first statement, "All I can do..." is wrong, because you can't technically, yuo can't legally, and you are unwilling, at least based on this post, to cross the legal line. If you change the law in the future, maybe you can say uit, but as of now, *you* can't.

And if you are unable to cross the line of legality to exercies you're right....do you really believe it?
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
     To beat Bill to it - Tampa Survellience cameras as seen on - (addison) - (153)
         Anecdotes won't cut it. - (Ashton)
         That isn't the technology, that's the privacy. - (Brandioch) - (151)
             Well...have to agree with you there... - (bepatient)
             Yup. - (addison) - (149)
                 Actually, isn't the technology a dismal flop? - (wharris2)
                 And the starting point is.... - (Brandioch) - (147)
                     Ok. - (addison) - (146)
                         Think guns. - (Brandioch) - (145)
                             So umm.... - (Fearless Freep) - (144)
                                 it is if you sell it or use for monetary gain - (boxley)
                                 There is not law, yet. - (Brandioch) - (142)
                                     *Shrug* your parallel, not mine - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                         You didn't read the other thread, did you? - (Brandioch)
                                     Re: There is not law, yet. - (addison) - (139)
                                         Again, guns. - (Brandioch) - (138)
                                             Strawman. - (addison) - (137)
                                                 Nope. Note the qualifier. - (Brandioch) - (136)
                                                     Yes. - (addison) - (135)
                                                         You don't know what "strawman" means. - (Brandioch) - (134)
                                                             I understand the implications and ramifications - (addison) - (133)
                                                                 Once again, legal vs "right". - (Brandioch) - (132)
                                                                     You have a choice. - (pwhysall) - (131)
                                                                         Also "Hero". - (Brandioch) - (129)
                                                                             Apples and Oranges - (pwhysall) - (128)
                                                                                 'Struth. - (imric) - (1)
                                                                                     1984 ___ Brave New World - (Ashton)
                                                                                 That was covered in the other thread, also. - (Brandioch) - (125)
                                                                                     Perhaps. - (pwhysall) - (124)
                                                                                         Yep. - (Brandioch) - (118)
                                                                                             Well said! - (imric) - (82)
                                                                                                 Is it? - (addison) - (81)
                                                                                                     So? - (imric) - (80)
                                                                                                         Nope. - (addison) - (79)
                                                                                                             Nope, you're wrong. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                             Fair enough. - (imric) - (77)
                                                                                                                 From their point of view - (Fearless Freep)
                                                                                                                 Its all in the Point Of View. - (addison) - (75)
                                                                                                                     And you repeatedly use the idea of 'public' - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                     Nope. - (Brandioch) - (73)
                                                                                                                         look at the gov of Minnesota - (boxley) - (4)
                                                                                                                             Does that protect against photos or just publication? -NT - (Fearless Freep) - (3)
                                                                                                                                 publication -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                                                                                     So he's trademarked the use of his image... - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                                                         yup thats my point, take my picture - (boxley)
                                                                                                                         Nope - (Fearless Freep) - (9)
                                                                                                                             "Happens all the time." - (Brandioch) - (8)
                                                                                                                                 Oh c'mon!!!! - (Fearless Freep) - (5)
                                                                                                                                     I gotta get back in time! - (Brandioch) - (4)
                                                                                                                                         Ya gotta read the posts - (Fearless Freep) - (3)
                                                                                                                                             More philosophy for you to consider. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                 Give that man a cookie - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                     And why do you think I would NOT do that? - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                                 In other words, your stance is unsupported by facts. - (addison) - (1)
                                                                                                                                     I should have been more clear. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                         Come now - (pwhysall) - (15)
                                                                                                                             Where do you see that? - (Brandioch) - (14)
                                                                                                                                 Re: Where do you see that? - (addison)
                                                                                                                                 complete the thought - (Fearless Freep) - (12)
                                                                                                                                     You're almost there. - (Brandioch) - (11)
                                                                                                                                         Funny. - (addison) - (2)
                                                                                                                                             ROTFLMAO - (Brandioch) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                 I think you hit your head. - (addison)
                                                                                                                                         Bingo!!! - (Fearless Freep) - (7)
                                                                                                                                             Thank you. - (Brandioch) - (6)
                                                                                                                                                 Try again - (Fearless Freep) - (5)
                                                                                                                                                     You didn't read my posts. - (Brandioch) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                         And again reread - (Fearless Freep) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                             Try it with comprehension this time. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                                 sheesh - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                     Context. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                         Sorry. But now you're fighting physics. - (addison) - (41)
                                                                                                                             Oh, come ON. He didn't say PEOPLE couldn't look. - (imric) - (40)
                                                                                                                                 No, you come on and read what he did say. - (addison) - (39)
                                                                                                                                     Cameras != eyeballs. - (Brandioch) - (38)
                                                                                                                                         Actually - (Fearless Freep) - (11)
                                                                                                                                             Already addressed in your previous post. - (Brandioch) - (10)
                                                                                                                                                 yawn - (Fearless Freep) - (9)
                                                                                                                                                     Re: yawn - (addison)
                                                                                                                                                     It's called "reading with comprehension". - (Brandioch) - (7)
                                                                                                                                                         Whoa! Here's a radical thought! - (Brandioch) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                             Been waiting for that one - (Fearless Freep) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                                 I was much older then, I'm younger than that now. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                                     because - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                         You cannot shoot me. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                                                         Too bad the posting lacks said same. - (addison)
                                                                                                                                                         No kidding - (Fearless Freep)
                                                                                                                                         Not currently. - (addison) - (25)
                                                                                                                                             There is a distinction. BTW, have they even worked? - (wharris2) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                 Not in this context, and I don't know. - (addison) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                     That only has one solution - (wharris2)
                                                                                                                                             Thanks for your participation. - (Brandioch) - (21)
                                                                                                                                                 I've gravely mistaken... - (addison) - (20)
                                                                                                                                                     Because you don't agree with me does not make me wrong. - (Brandioch) - (19)
                                                                                                                                                         Nope, it doesn't. - (addison) - (18)
                                                                                                                                                             And man will never fly. - (Brandioch) - (17)
                                                                                                                                                                 So after 2 weeks... - (addison) - (16)
                                                                                                                                                                     And the loop starts again. - (Brandioch) - (15)
                                                                                                                                                                         I can but hope that you really don't think this way. - (addison) - (13)
                                                                                                                                                                             Sorry. You ARE authoritarian. - (imric) - (12)
                                                                                                                                                                                 However, I do have the ability to read and understand. - (addison) - (11)
                                                                                                                                                                                     I'm not sure that's true. - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                                                                     Bullshit. Learn to use a dictionary. - (imric) - (9)
                                                                                                                                                                                         Learn to read - (addison) - (8)
                                                                                                                                                                                             Good? At what? - (imric) - (7)
                                                                                                                                                                                                 howsabout we all chip in and Buy Addy a poloroid camera - (boxley)
                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Good? At what? - (addison) - (5)
                                                                                                                                                                                                     Heh.. You__still__don't__ Get!__it__...____a-tall. -NT - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                                                                                     Again, strawman. - (Brandioch) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                                                                         Agree except for one point - (DonRichards) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                                                             Amen (to coin a phrase) - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                                                                                         Its not a strawman if its exactly what you're saying. - (addison)
                                                                                                                                                                         utter agreement - (boxley)
                                                                                             What about *their* rights? - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                                                 Err on the side of more freedoms. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                             Errrrrrr..... - (addison) - (32)
                                                                                                 Yep! - (Brandioch) - (31)
                                                                                                     But that flies in the face of what you said earlier. - (addison) - (30)
                                                                                                         'Privacy' appears to distress you. Try - (Ashton)
                                                                                                         I own my image. - (Brandioch) - (28)
                                                                                                             Problem is... - (Fearless Freep) - (24)
                                                                                                                 Bulls**t - (DonRichards) - (20)
                                                                                                                     Try it - (Fearless Freep) - (19)
                                                                                                                         Still don't agree - (DonRichards) - (14)
                                                                                                                             Disconnect - (Fearless Freep) - (13)
                                                                                                                                 and Clarification - (Fearless Freep)
                                                                                                                                 Cough. That's Declaration of Independence... - (Simon_Jester) - (6)
                                                                                                                                     Not really. - (addison) - (5)
                                                                                                                                         Umm..actually.... - (Fearless Freep) - (4)
                                                                                                                                             Errr. He was? -NT - (addison) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                 Yeah... - (Fearless Freep) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                     Oh. - (addison)
                                                                                                                                                     NCRs unite! - (DonRichards)
                                                                                                                                 There's a flag on that play. - (Brandioch) - (4)
                                                                                                                                     Pick the flag up - (Fearless Freep)
                                                                                                                                     Others have stated it more elegantly - (DonRichards) - (2)
                                                                                                                                         Not sure who you are talking to... - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                                                             The journey is the destination. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                         oops... - (Fearless Freep)
                                                                                                                         That's one way to look at it. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                                                                             One and the same - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                                                 Insert standard example here. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                 "legal" == "right" - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                                                                     Without all the detail - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                                         You can't handle that from the context? - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                             Actually, I think you own your painted image too... - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
                                                                                                                 I'm wrong. - (Simon_Jester)
                                                                                                             Not currently, you don't. - (addison)
                                                                                         Wrong verb - (jb4) - (4)
                                                                                             Ahem - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                                                                                 but the repos and dems ARE left wing, at least to some of us -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                                                     Well Ox, if you Really think that, - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                                                                         naw both a buncha commies :) - (boxley)
                                                                         welcome to ox island diplomatic passports fer sale - (boxley)

At the end of the day, it's still North Dakota.
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