IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Nope
Happens all the time. I went to the Ballon Fiesta a few years back and took pictures of my family, and about a hundred other people accidentally in the background.

I did a gig a few weeks back and the singers husband took our pictures, as well as most of the people in the audience

If you 'owned the right to your image' and no one could photograph you, then tabloids would be out of business because photographing celebrities would be illegal

Your shrill insistance doesn't change reality, sorry to say
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New "Happens all the time."
Yep. And if you lived a while back in the southern states, slavery happened all the time.

Does the frequency matter?

"I did a gig a few weeks back and the singers husband took our pictures, as well as most of the people in the audience"

Let me guess, "did a gig" means the same a "put on a show".

"If you 'owned the right to your image' and no one could photograph you, then tabloids would be out of business because photographing celebrities would be illegal"

Gee, I guess if someone goes out of business, then it isn't right.

So, commerce defines "right" and "wrong"?

Care to try again?
New Oh c'mon!!!!
That was the most unrelated post I've seen yet.

Yep. And if you lived a while back in the southern states, slavery happened all the time.

Does the frequency matter?


Perhaps I need to spell it out slowly. The missing word is that it happens legally all the time and also if you bother reading [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=5064|clarification] you would realize I'm only pointing out what is legally allowable, not what is morally correct


"If you 'owned the right to your image' and no one could photograph you, then tabloids would be out of business because photographing celebrities would be illegal"

Gee, I guess if someone goes out of business, then it isn't right.


No, but the fact that they are still in business means they have a legal right to do what they are doing, even if you diagree with the moral right

So, commerce defines "right" and "wrong"?

No, and that's so far afield from what I said that I'm wondering if your are even seriously thinking or just knee-jerk ranting
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New I gotta get back in time!
"Perhaps I need to spell it out slowly. The missing word is that it happens legally all the time and also if you bother reading clarification you would realize I'm only pointing out what is legally allowable, not what is morally correct"

Which was the point of my slavery post.

Of all the slavery posts I've made in this thread.

All of them.

There were more than one.

In fact, there's even a question attached to them.

Is "legal" the definition of "right"?

You see, "legal" changes over time.

That must be another post (plural) that you missed.

What WAS "legal" is NOW "illegal".

So, what I'm saying is that something that is NOW "legal" should BE "illegal" in the FUTURE.

past/present/future

legal/illegal

right/wrong

But for some reason, the concept of change over time is incomprensible to some people..

Once again, we are not talking about rights that our government has recognized TODAY.

(for some reason, I feel that I will be posting that statement again in the near future)
New Ya gotta read the posts
Is "legal" the definition of "right"?

Nope, and I made that point clear [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=5064|here] and alluded to it [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=5053|here]

There is a differnce between a legal "right" and what is 'right'; I've been saying that all morning

Once again, we are not talking about rights that our government has recognized TODAY.

Until it is recognized by the government, it may be morally 'right' in your eyes, but it is not a "right" that you possess. Unless you elevate what you think is right to the status of a "right", than it's not something you can use with present tense possesive verb because it has no meaning
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New More philosophy for you to consider.
"Until it is recognized by the government, it may be morally 'right' in your eyes, but it is not a "right" that you possess."

Semantics. I have REPEATEDLY pointed out that I believe that the rights are inherent in the individual. Not that they are granted by the government.

All the government can do is legalize or illegalize the expression of those rights.

What you are experiencing is one of the reasons I don't agree with your logic. If "rights" are defined by the government, then individuals have no rights that aren't granted by the government. But the government is composed of the individuals it governs. So the rights are legalized by the individuals seeking those rights.

In other words, the rights are inherent in the individual.

But only if that individual has the authority to enforce that decision.

In other words:
Might makes right.

For your other statement:
"Unless you elevate what you think is right to the status of a "right", than it's not something you can use with present tense possesive verb because it has no meaning"

Of course it does. Unless you NEVER change your mind.
New Give that man a cookie
I have REPEATEDLY pointed out that I believe that the rights are inherent in the individual.

No kidding, but you've never said why. I said as much quite awhile ago.

Not that they are granted by the government.

And my only point has been, from a practical application point of view, it doesn't matter

All the government can do is legalize or illegalize the expression of those rights.

Thank you for finally realizing it. *That's* why it doesn't matter


If "rights" are defined by the government, then individuals have no rights that aren't granted by the government.

A gross distortion of my point, but oh well...

But the government is composed of the individuals it governs. So the rights are legalized by the individuals seeking those rights.

Ahh...but now you are considering only a small sample. That's an ideal world where you have a circle between the governed and the governing so that the moral beliefs of the people and the legal rights of the people are in congruence.

What happens in a totalitarian state, or an anarchy dominated by gangs, where the government is *not* composed of those being governed. There are some many types of social structures, including forms of government, where that simple circle simply doesn't work, so what happens to a person's moral rights then?

"Unless you elevate what you think is right to the status of a "right", than it's not something you can use with present tense possesive verb because it has no meaning"

Of course it does. Unless you NEVER change your mind.


OK, I'll try with more explicit phrasing

Unless you take the time to go through the process of turning what you think is a moral right into a legally recognized right it doesn't matter whether you think you have that particular right or not because you will not be given the opportunity to exercise that right
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New And why do you think I would NOT do that?
"Unless you take the time to go through the process of turning what you think is a moral right into a legally recognized right it doesn't matter whether you think you have that particular right or not because you will not be given the opportunity to exercise that right"

Again, they can't stop me from expressing my rights. They can only punish me after I do so.

But, anyway.

Why are you implying that I wouldn't ALSO work to change the law?

Again, from the beginning I've said that I don't see any reason why I should follow a law I don't agree with.
(subject to being able to deal with the jail time/fine/whatever).

But I've never said that I wouldn't ALSO work to change the law.
New In other words, your stance is unsupported by facts.
Does the frequency matter?

Sometimes, yes.

Gee, I guess if someone goes out of business, then it isn't right.

Nope. But you don't see many people pursuing cases.

For a situation where there is a "god-given right", that seems awful strange.

They sure do sue in a hurry for libel/slander. And for invasion of privacy, if it occurs.

So why, if you're right, aren't there gazillions of cases to back you up?

Care to try again?

Addison
New I should have been more clear.
I asked:
"Does the frequency matter?"

You replied:
"Sometimes, yes."

I should have asked:
"Why, in this particular discussion, would the frequency matter."

Then you ask:
"So why, if you're right, aren't there gazillions of cases to back you up?"

Because this is a NEW CONCEPT?

The technology has progressed to a point where this type of invasion is now possible.

For slander/libel all you needed was a means of communication. We've had that for 3000 years.
     To beat Bill to it - Tampa Survellience cameras as seen on - (addison) - (153)
         Anecdotes won't cut it. - (Ashton)
         That isn't the technology, that's the privacy. - (Brandioch) - (151)
             Well...have to agree with you there... - (bepatient)
             Yup. - (addison) - (149)
                 Actually, isn't the technology a dismal flop? - (wharris2)
                 And the starting point is.... - (Brandioch) - (147)
                     Ok. - (addison) - (146)
                         Think guns. - (Brandioch) - (145)
                             So umm.... - (Fearless Freep) - (144)
                                 it is if you sell it or use for monetary gain - (boxley)
                                 There is not law, yet. - (Brandioch) - (142)
                                     *Shrug* your parallel, not mine - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                         You didn't read the other thread, did you? - (Brandioch)
                                     Re: There is not law, yet. - (addison) - (139)
                                         Again, guns. - (Brandioch) - (138)
                                             Strawman. - (addison) - (137)
                                                 Nope. Note the qualifier. - (Brandioch) - (136)
                                                     Yes. - (addison) - (135)
                                                         You don't know what "strawman" means. - (Brandioch) - (134)
                                                             I understand the implications and ramifications - (addison) - (133)
                                                                 Once again, legal vs "right". - (Brandioch) - (132)
                                                                     You have a choice. - (pwhysall) - (131)
                                                                         Also "Hero". - (Brandioch) - (129)
                                                                             Apples and Oranges - (pwhysall) - (128)
                                                                                 'Struth. - (imric) - (1)
                                                                                     1984 ___ Brave New World - (Ashton)
                                                                                 That was covered in the other thread, also. - (Brandioch) - (125)
                                                                                     Perhaps. - (pwhysall) - (124)
                                                                                         Yep. - (Brandioch) - (118)
                                                                                             Well said! - (imric) - (82)
                                                                                                 Is it? - (addison) - (81)
                                                                                                     So? - (imric) - (80)
                                                                                                         Nope. - (addison) - (79)
                                                                                                             Nope, you're wrong. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                             Fair enough. - (imric) - (77)
                                                                                                                 From their point of view - (Fearless Freep)
                                                                                                                 Its all in the Point Of View. - (addison) - (75)
                                                                                                                     And you repeatedly use the idea of 'public' - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                     Nope. - (Brandioch) - (73)
                                                                                                                         look at the gov of Minnesota - (boxley) - (4)
                                                                                                                             Does that protect against photos or just publication? -NT - (Fearless Freep) - (3)
                                                                                                                                 publication -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                                                                                     So he's trademarked the use of his image... - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                                                         yup thats my point, take my picture - (boxley)
                                                                                                                         Nope - (Fearless Freep) - (9)
                                                                                                                             "Happens all the time." - (Brandioch) - (8)
                                                                                                                                 Oh c'mon!!!! - (Fearless Freep) - (5)
                                                                                                                                     I gotta get back in time! - (Brandioch) - (4)
                                                                                                                                         Ya gotta read the posts - (Fearless Freep) - (3)
                                                                                                                                             More philosophy for you to consider. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                 Give that man a cookie - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                     And why do you think I would NOT do that? - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                                 In other words, your stance is unsupported by facts. - (addison) - (1)
                                                                                                                                     I should have been more clear. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                         Come now - (pwhysall) - (15)
                                                                                                                             Where do you see that? - (Brandioch) - (14)
                                                                                                                                 Re: Where do you see that? - (addison)
                                                                                                                                 complete the thought - (Fearless Freep) - (12)
                                                                                                                                     You're almost there. - (Brandioch) - (11)
                                                                                                                                         Funny. - (addison) - (2)
                                                                                                                                             ROTFLMAO - (Brandioch) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                 I think you hit your head. - (addison)
                                                                                                                                         Bingo!!! - (Fearless Freep) - (7)
                                                                                                                                             Thank you. - (Brandioch) - (6)
                                                                                                                                                 Try again - (Fearless Freep) - (5)
                                                                                                                                                     You didn't read my posts. - (Brandioch) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                         And again reread - (Fearless Freep) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                             Try it with comprehension this time. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                                 sheesh - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                     Context. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                         Sorry. But now you're fighting physics. - (addison) - (41)
                                                                                                                             Oh, come ON. He didn't say PEOPLE couldn't look. - (imric) - (40)
                                                                                                                                 No, you come on and read what he did say. - (addison) - (39)
                                                                                                                                     Cameras != eyeballs. - (Brandioch) - (38)
                                                                                                                                         Actually - (Fearless Freep) - (11)
                                                                                                                                             Already addressed in your previous post. - (Brandioch) - (10)
                                                                                                                                                 yawn - (Fearless Freep) - (9)
                                                                                                                                                     Re: yawn - (addison)
                                                                                                                                                     It's called "reading with comprehension". - (Brandioch) - (7)
                                                                                                                                                         Whoa! Here's a radical thought! - (Brandioch) - (4)
                                                                                                                                                             Been waiting for that one - (Fearless Freep) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                                 I was much older then, I'm younger than that now. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                                     because - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                         You cannot shoot me. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                                                         Too bad the posting lacks said same. - (addison)
                                                                                                                                                         No kidding - (Fearless Freep)
                                                                                                                                         Not currently. - (addison) - (25)
                                                                                                                                             There is a distinction. BTW, have they even worked? - (wharris2) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                 Not in this context, and I don't know. - (addison) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                     That only has one solution - (wharris2)
                                                                                                                                             Thanks for your participation. - (Brandioch) - (21)
                                                                                                                                                 I've gravely mistaken... - (addison) - (20)
                                                                                                                                                     Because you don't agree with me does not make me wrong. - (Brandioch) - (19)
                                                                                                                                                         Nope, it doesn't. - (addison) - (18)
                                                                                                                                                             And man will never fly. - (Brandioch) - (17)
                                                                                                                                                                 So after 2 weeks... - (addison) - (16)
                                                                                                                                                                     And the loop starts again. - (Brandioch) - (15)
                                                                                                                                                                         I can but hope that you really don't think this way. - (addison) - (13)
                                                                                                                                                                             Sorry. You ARE authoritarian. - (imric) - (12)
                                                                                                                                                                                 However, I do have the ability to read and understand. - (addison) - (11)
                                                                                                                                                                                     I'm not sure that's true. - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                                                                     Bullshit. Learn to use a dictionary. - (imric) - (9)
                                                                                                                                                                                         Learn to read - (addison) - (8)
                                                                                                                                                                                             Good? At what? - (imric) - (7)
                                                                                                                                                                                                 howsabout we all chip in and Buy Addy a poloroid camera - (boxley)
                                                                                                                                                                                                 Re: Good? At what? - (addison) - (5)
                                                                                                                                                                                                     Heh.. You__still__don't__ Get!__it__...____a-tall. -NT - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                                                                                     Again, strawman. - (Brandioch) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                                                                         Agree except for one point - (DonRichards) - (1)
                                                                                                                                                                                                             Amen (to coin a phrase) - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                                                                                                         Its not a strawman if its exactly what you're saying. - (addison)
                                                                                                                                                                         utter agreement - (boxley)
                                                                                             What about *their* rights? - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                                                 Err on the side of more freedoms. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                             Errrrrrr..... - (addison) - (32)
                                                                                                 Yep! - (Brandioch) - (31)
                                                                                                     But that flies in the face of what you said earlier. - (addison) - (30)
                                                                                                         'Privacy' appears to distress you. Try - (Ashton)
                                                                                                         I own my image. - (Brandioch) - (28)
                                                                                                             Problem is... - (Fearless Freep) - (24)
                                                                                                                 Bulls**t - (DonRichards) - (20)
                                                                                                                     Try it - (Fearless Freep) - (19)
                                                                                                                         Still don't agree - (DonRichards) - (14)
                                                                                                                             Disconnect - (Fearless Freep) - (13)
                                                                                                                                 and Clarification - (Fearless Freep)
                                                                                                                                 Cough. That's Declaration of Independence... - (Simon_Jester) - (6)
                                                                                                                                     Not really. - (addison) - (5)
                                                                                                                                         Umm..actually.... - (Fearless Freep) - (4)
                                                                                                                                             Errr. He was? -NT - (addison) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                 Yeah... - (Fearless Freep) - (2)
                                                                                                                                                     Oh. - (addison)
                                                                                                                                                     NCRs unite! - (DonRichards)
                                                                                                                                 There's a flag on that play. - (Brandioch) - (4)
                                                                                                                                     Pick the flag up - (Fearless Freep)
                                                                                                                                     Others have stated it more elegantly - (DonRichards) - (2)
                                                                                                                                         Not sure who you are talking to... - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                                                             The journey is the destination. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                         oops... - (Fearless Freep)
                                                                                                                         That's one way to look at it. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                                                                             One and the same - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                                                 Insert standard example here. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                                 "legal" == "right" - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                                                                     Without all the detail - (Fearless Freep) - (1)
                                                                                                                         You can't handle that from the context? - (Brandioch)
                                                                                                             Actually, I think you own your painted image too... - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
                                                                                                                 I'm wrong. - (Simon_Jester)
                                                                                                             Not currently, you don't. - (addison)
                                                                                         Wrong verb - (jb4) - (4)
                                                                                             Ahem - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                                                                                 but the repos and dems ARE left wing, at least to some of us -NT - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                                                     Well Ox, if you Really think that, - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                                                                         naw both a buncha commies :) - (boxley)
                                                                         welcome to ox island diplomatic passports fer sale - (boxley)

Caveat emptor.
408 ms