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New Re: and round and round we go
Ice Skating, gymnastics diving all SPORTS where the outcome and moves are known in advance and Judged by their peers. Same as rasstling.

Not really. You may know that a person's gonna perform a half gainer in the tuck position, but you don't know if he's going to execute it well, and how the judge is going to score it, so the outcome is still in question. Nobody knows in advance who is going to win, it still relies on the ability to pull off the move. And even when you *what* the other side is going to do, you are still motivated by competition to do either a more difficult move, or to do the same one better

In wrestling, it's all just choregographed dance steps. It's silly to watch them scoot a few feet over because they know they are going to take a fall and they have to set themseleves to be in the right spot. Trampoline mats that bounce more so it will look more impressive. The best ones are the ones were eother someone falls on another person and you can see that all the force is taken by the faller against the mat, not the "fallee", or when someone drops someone else by holding onto their head and falling with them and you can see that their head never hits the ground and all the force of the blow is again aborbed by the droppers arms or legs against the mat.

This would be the equivlent of a center fielder catching a fly ball and tossing it over the fence and calling it a home run. Or a corner back cathing the ball and letting it slide to the receiver for a touchdown

If it wasn't so obvious that both particpants were working together for a prearranged outcome, I'd give it more credit as a 'sport', but as it is, it's just a well-choreographed, (and admittedly highly athletic) stage show

Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New Hmmmm. Some could discuss it
You can make a legitimate argument that sports like ice skating, gymnastics are also not "true" sports - in that the act of judging introduces too many non-sport decisions.
French Zombies are zapping me with lasers!
New Are you ready to rumble?
Or you could say that any event where the participants are being paid money is not really a sport, but rather it's a job - little more than an occupation. :-)
New I would say...
...that the minimum requirement of a sport would be that there must be competition between opposing. It's a test of limit of one side's skill against the limit of the other side's with the outcome dependent on the result of that test. There is no competition in highwire acts, nore ballet, nor juggling, nor professional wrestling
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New lets use your description
It's a test of limit of one side's skill against the limit of the other side's with the outcome dependent on the result of that test.

In rassling you test your skills, athletic, histronic and speech against your opponent. The winner "gets over" with the fans. The winner is determined by how may asses they plant in the seats and is a process that takes time. The winner is determined by both facetime and paychecks. It is not merely judged on match to match it is judged by a set of plays lasting 3 weeks to a year or more.
thanx,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New Now *that's* a stretch
Movies are a sport "more butts in the theater seats" The winning actor draws larger audiences

Politics is a sport as well. Takes time to develop, how big a crowd you draw determines whether you win or not, and the size of your paycheck

Sheesh, by that standard, Ryan Leif is a better quarterback than Brett Farve because he plays in front of larger crowds.

What you are really arguing is that wrestling is more like the movies...and in that I am in *complete* agreement
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
Expand Edited by Fearless Freep Aug. 14, 2001, 01:34:05 PM EDT
New having raced for money although not much
and being fat in a back brace and slow because of drugs I guarranty in a 50 lap 3/8 circle dirt track I can beet all comers in this group and a lot of others. Now I need help to piss cause the doc told me not to lift anything heavy:) and you call racing a sport but not rasstling. I will argue this point unto death or unto the admin giving me the correct forum which is sports entertainment. Or I challenge you to the closed course ziwethey classic to be hosted sometime somewhere demo derby alaska style.
time in
10 laps forward race
4 laps reverse race
1 australian pass race
the demo
must participate in all races to get to the demo
IDDA rules apply
[link|http://www.demo-derby.com/idda1.htm|http://www.demo-derby.com/idda1.htm]
thanx,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New I'm in if I get a mid-60's Chrysler Imperial! :-)
(virtually, of course).

I've only seen one DemoDerby. About 8 Chrysler Imperials were entered in various heats. They were indestructable! Something about the design makes the trunk fold up in such a way that it becomes a wonderful battering ram. And the front end is very strong so it can't be killed that way either. Amazing sight. Fortunately, or not depending on your point of view, the cars are banned at many DDs because they're so good.

[link|http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/1789/secrets.htm|Nick's Demolition Derby Page]

Cheers,
Scott.
New banned in IDDA (great cars)
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New Sure
and you call racing a sport but not rasstling

*I* call racing a sport, although I concede it could be a debated label. At least there is competition. "Rasstling" has no competition, therefore it's easily not a sport
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New of course there is competition
between the rasslers just not every match is a clearcut competition, the fans are the judge and they declare the winner. Always has been that way. In dark matches it is often not pedetermined who wins.
thanx,
bill
who is glad Oh feerless one thinks I am a sports figure! hack cough wheeze
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New yeah ,yeah, you said before
between the rasslers just not every match is a clearcut competition, the fans are the judge and they declare the winner.

Again, rassling == "a night at the movies". Vote by putting your butt in the seat.

In dark matches it is often not pedetermined who wins.

Ergo, it's usually predetermined who will win. That's not a sport.
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New Re: lets use your description
Man, is that a stretch or what!

A sport requires both physical and skill aspects against one or more opponents that is unscripted and unjudged. The unjudged part is probably a debateable point. I'm primarily considering here the asthetic judging.

Sports: hockey, baseball, football, basketball, rugby, track and field, amateur wrestling, boxing, skiing, speed skating, ...

Not sports: gymnastics, figure skating, darts, billiards, synchronized swimming, golf*, auto racing*, bowling, skeet shooting, professional wrestling...

* These are debateable. I personally don't consider them sports. We need a new word for them.

I have no issue with posting professional wrestling messages in this group. It's either this forum or the Entertainment one. Just don't call professional wrestling a sport.

If pro wrestling did away with the scripted matches and the fake moves, I would call it a sport like the matches in Ultimate Fighting Championship. Not that I find UFC pleasing to watch. Hey for you UFC fans, why do the martial arts guys go up against the bigger brawling submission move guys? From the clips I've seen the MA guys always get beaten badly.
lister
New The whole reason
I have no issue with posting professional wrestling messages in this group. It's either this forum or the Entertainment one.

That's what started this. I posted a link to an article about the WWF versus WWF :) in the Entertainment forum. boxley copied the text (but not the link, for some reason, considering I only posted a portion of the full article) for a new post in this forum

Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New Ah! I don't read the Entertainment forum
I was kind of wondering how this got started again. :-)
New Fornicating
Is this a sport?

1) There is definitely competition.

2) The outcome is not known in advance.

3) A lot of physical skill is required.

4) There are a lot of ups and downs.

5) There is usually at least one ball in play.

I'd say yes. On the other hand, the "winners" end up with mortgages and college payments, so the prize structure is somewhat inverted.
New why do ya think they call it a sporting house?:)
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New Now that's an Olympic event I'd pay to see

[link|http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,3-105277,00.html|[link|http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,3-105277,00.html|http://www.thetimes...5277,00.html]]
"When it crosses my mind to do something, I don't ask why, I ask why not. And usually there's no reason not to, so I just go ahead. It's given me the strangest collection of hats"
New Re: Auto racing as a sport
"Racing is the only sport. All the rest are games."

Can't remember who said it, and I don't completely agree, but interesting data point from a participant.
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
New Additionally
I don't think that it would be as dangerous as it is, if it weren't for real.

Ask Ayrton Senna, Roland Ratzenberger, and more recently, Dale Earnhardt, about that.

Racing is indeed the only other sport besides cricket.
--
Peter
Shill For Hire
New Re: Auto racing as a sport
There isn't the same physical demand on the body in auto racing like it is on the other sports I mentioned previously. That's why I don't consider auto racing a sport. I wouldn't call it a game like golf though.

Competitive cycling however is a sport.
lister
New Ya don't think?
Well, all them F1 drivers seem to spend a helluva lot of time getting ultra-fit for SOMETHING...

Driving at an average speed of 160MPH for 2 hours in a car with ~5mm travel in the suspension, pulling up to 3 or 4 Gs in the corners is *extremely* physically demanding.
--
Peter
Shill For Hire
New Re: Ya don't think?
Well a fat guy certainly isn't going to fit into the tight little cockpit.

It still is though different physical demands that in my mind makes it not a sport. As I said auto racing is debateable.

What about sky diving? Is that a sport? I consider it lunacy myself. :-)
New I would beg to differ
There isn't the same physical demand on the body in auto racing like it is on the other sports I mentioned previously.

There's probably more physical demand placed on the body in an autorace than in a baseball game, for example.

I consider it a sport because it does involve competition as well as a high level of physical and mental skill and endurance
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New Re: I would beg to differ
That's a bad example for me. I don't even like baseball very much. :-) Watching it that is. Playing it for fun is a different story.

You're still not going to convince me otherwise.
New Don't matter
That's a bad example for me. I don't even like baseball very much. :-)

But is it a sport? I don't like baseketball or hockey, but I don't deny they are sports. My point was to compare autoracing to something generally considerd a sport that doesn't require as much physical exertion as auto-racing
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
New I would beg to differ
There isn't the same physical demand on the body in auto racing like it is on the other sports I mentioned previously.

There's probably more physical demand placed on the body in an autorace than in a baseball game, for example.

I consider it a sport because it does involve competition as well as a high level of physical and mental skill and endurance
Jay O'Connor

"Going places unmapped
to do things unplanned
to people unsuspecting"
     relocating post to correct area - (boxley) - (29)
         Not really. - (Fearless Freep) - (28)
             and round and round we go - (boxley) - (27)
                 Re: and round and round we go - (Fearless Freep) - (26)
                     Hmmmm. Some could discuss it - (wharris2) - (25)
                         Are you ready to rumble? - (ChrisR) - (24)
                             I would say... - (Fearless Freep) - (23)
                                 lets use your description - (boxley) - (22)
                                     Now *that's* a stretch - (Fearless Freep) - (6)
                                         having raced for money although not much - (boxley) - (5)
                                             I'm in if I get a mid-60's Chrysler Imperial! :-) - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                 banned in IDDA (great cars) -NT - (boxley)
                                             Sure - (Fearless Freep) - (2)
                                                 of course there is competition - (boxley) - (1)
                                                     yeah ,yeah, you said before - (Fearless Freep)
                                     Re: lets use your description - (lister) - (14)
                                         The whole reason - (Fearless Freep) - (4)
                                             Ah! I don't read the Entertainment forum - (lister)
                                             Fornicating - (deSitter) - (2)
                                                 why do ya think they call it a sporting house?:) -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                     Now that's an Olympic event I'd pay to see - (DonRichards)
                                         Re: Auto racing as a sport - (drewk) - (8)
                                             Additionally - (pwhysall)
                                             Re: Auto racing as a sport - (lister) - (6)
                                                 Ya don't think? - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                     Re: Ya don't think? - (lister)
                                                 I would beg to differ - (Fearless Freep) - (2)
                                                     Re: I would beg to differ - (lister) - (1)
                                                         Don't matter - (Fearless Freep)
                                                 I would beg to differ - (Fearless Freep)

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