actually a ghandi approach would work

I dont have the courage for it but if I was terminal or lost all my family I would try.
Cadres of thirteen approach the flashpoint with the understanding that the israeli's would not interfere. Pass to the PLA area dressed as old style jews and ask to speak to Arafat and start walking there. The mob would kill them, televise it. The second group of mayrters would have to be the most courageous because they would see the fate of the first. It would be replayed world wide on the tube. After a few groups the palestinian people would abbhor the perps and the persp would take more glee in dismembering the cadres and the world would be revulsed. Then negotiations that had meaning would take place. I think it is going to take the deaths of a lot of innocents get anywhere. :(
thanx,
bill

as you said - only heroes need apply. Nor could anyone actually 'apply', for the essence of using shame is that - the event must *be* ~unpremeditated, certainly not orchestrated. But always and everywhere there be Chance:

The Vietnamese monks immolating selves - got even Kennedy's attention (thus a whole bunch under him) as evidence of how much Ngo Dinh Diem was unloved as a puppet installed by us.

(Didn't help that JFK was later said to have begun the planning for withdrawal from that morass..) nor did it help that Greer, the driver in Dallas on 11/22: stopped dead after first shot - he hadn't driven that car before either - instead of swerving and gassing it.. (The first shot didn't kill)

So we got Johnson riding on JFK's martyrdom and Pricess Di emotional mandate - and a (already, previously) disgraced Nixon next President and.. all the rest of accidental history. The only kind there is.

Irrelevant? I think not: there just is no way I can imagine, starting from *here* - for a deliberate, methodical and sane new 'peace process' to spring from the forehead of er ___ anyone alive. Next: accidents, deaths and if the world is Damn lucky,

Shame! of the sort you mention. Only that level of shame *can* change habits rapidly enough if.. all next goes uncharacteristically well.

So I agree with your sense of it all. You just can't "do" it! It must just happen.

My 3 shekels

Post #4,811 by boxley 8/12/01 11:12:15 PM Reply	actually a ghandi approach would work I dont have the courage for it but if I was terminal or lost all my family I would try. Cadres of thirteen approach the flashpoint with the understanding that the israeli's would not interfere. Pass to the PLA area dressed as old style jews and ask to speak to Arafat and start walking there. The mob would kill them, televise it. The second group of mayrters would have to be the most courageous because they would see the fate of the first. It would be replayed world wide on the tube. After a few groups the palestinian people would abbhor the perps and the persp would take more glee in dismembering the cadres and the world would be revulsed. Then negotiations that had meaning would take place. I think it is going to take the deaths of a lot of innocents get anywhere. :( thanx, bill Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves. Chuck Palahniuk
Post #4,820 by a6l6e6x 8/12/01 11:46:18 PM Reply	Point taken. Alex Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not certain about the universe. -- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Post #4,821 by Ashton 8/12/01 11:52:07 PM Reply	Sound psychology, but as you said - only heroes need apply. Nor could anyone actually 'apply', for the essence of using shame is that - the event must be ~unpremeditated, certainly not orchestrated. But always and everywhere there be Chance: The Vietnamese monks immolating selves - got even Kennedy's attention (thus a whole bunch under him) as evidence of how much Ngo Dinh Diem was unloved as a puppet installed by us. (Didn't help that JFK was later said to have begun the planning for withdrawal from that morass..) nor did it help that Greer, the driver in Dallas on 11/22: stopped dead after first shot - he hadn't driven that car before either - instead of swerving and gassing it.. (The first shot didn't kill) So we got Johnson riding on JFK's martyrdom and Pricess Di emotional mandate - and a (already, previously) disgraced Nixon next President and.. all the rest of accidental history. The only kind there is. Irrelevant? I think not: there just is no way I can imagine, starting from here - for a deliberate, methodical and sane new 'peace process' to spring from the forehead of er ___ anyone alive. Next: accidents, deaths and if the world is Damn lucky, Shame! of the sort you mention. Only that level of shame can change habits rapidly enough if.. all next goes uncharacteristically well. So I agree with your sense of it all. You just can't "do" it! It must just happen. My 3 shekels

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