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New No, "turning the other cheek" is not a solution.
It may have worked for Ghandi, but this situation is different.

Focusing on the Hamas for the stick, and the PA, or someone more moderate for the carrot, is one thought that comes to mind. Hamas needs to fail and their failures need to be publicized. The other guys need to be succeed publicly. As impossible as it seems, Israel has to divide and conquer the hearts of the Palestinians. There needs to be a "win-win".
Alex

Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not certain about the universe.
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
New doesnt the targeted assainations do just that?
hamas loses the people pulling the trigger and Peres is willing to negotiate.
thanx,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New Sure, to some degree.
But using helicopter gunships and rockets loses points. Although objectionable in some ways, even low tech "accidents" would be an improvement on that. Humane and civilized approaches (i.e. do it without killing) get bonus points.

The Israeli infiltration into Hamas must be pretty good. Capturing and trying them in court, especially if it was the World Court, would be better. If a PA police and court would do that it would be ideal. But we know that wouldn't happen at present. But such a time can come.

From today's (8/13/01) New York Times:

Four Hamas members were reportedly arrested by the Palestinian Authority over the weekend, including a man said by Israel to have been the one who sent the pizzeria bomber on his deadly mission. But the arrests were waved off by Israeli officials today as too little too late.

PA can't win for losing.
Alex

Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not certain about the universe.
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
New arresting them is one thing
just like Arafat arrested them before then sent them all on the street becausehe needed them. Those folk need a set of laws and a juidicial system. Right now it is chaotic.
thanx,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New actually a ghandi approach would work
I dont have the courage for it but if I was terminal or lost all my family I would try.
Cadres of thirteen approach the flashpoint with the understanding that the israeli's would not interfere. Pass to the PLA area dressed as old style jews and ask to speak to Arafat and start walking there. The mob would kill them, televise it. The second group of mayrters would have to be the most courageous because they would see the fate of the first. It would be replayed world wide on the tube. After a few groups the palestinian people would abbhor the perps and the persp would take more glee in dismembering the cadres and the world would be revulsed. Then negotiations that had meaning would take place. I think it is going to take the deaths of a lot of innocents get anywhere. :(
thanx,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New Point taken.
Alex

Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not certain about the universe.
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
New Sound psychology, but
as you said - only heroes need apply. Nor could anyone actually 'apply', for the essence of using shame is that - the event must *be* ~unpremeditated, certainly not orchestrated. But always and everywhere there be Chance:

The Vietnamese monks immolating selves - got even Kennedy's attention (thus a whole bunch under him) as evidence of how much Ngo Dinh Diem was unloved as a puppet installed by us.

(Didn't help that JFK was later said to have begun the planning for withdrawal from that morass..) nor did it help that Greer, the driver in Dallas on 11/22: stopped dead after first shot - he hadn't driven that car before either - instead of swerving and gassing it.. (The first shot didn't kill)

So we got Johnson riding on JFK's martyrdom and Pricess Di emotional mandate - and a (already, previously) disgraced Nixon next President and.. all the rest of accidental history. The only kind there is.

Irrelevant? I think not: there just is no way I can imagine, starting from *here* - for a deliberate, methodical and sane new 'peace process' to spring from the forehead of er ___ anyone alive. Next: accidents, deaths and if the world is Damn lucky,

Shame! of the sort you mention. Only that level of shame *can* change habits rapidly enough if.. all next goes uncharacteristically well.

So I agree with your sense of it all. You just can't "do" it! It must just happen.



My 3 shekels
     WashPost story on yesterday's bombing in Jerusalem. - (Another Scott) - (26)
         Simple Solution - (tablizer) - (3)
             huh? the Pals all of them want all jews to die or go away - (boxley) - (2)
                 Come on, BOTH sides are zealots -NT - (tablizer) - (1)
                     yeah but one is the chicken and one the pig - (boxley)
         Why is this a provocation? - (bluke)
         What a warped world we live in - (bluke) - (20)
             IMO, it's a provocation because - (Another Scott) - (19)
                 Excellent post! I could not have said it as well. -NT - (a6l6e6x)
                 how very one sided of you - (boxley) - (17)
                     Nah! The Palestinians are not a monolithic... - (a6l6e6x) - (8)
                         So every attack by the Pals must be suffered - (boxley) - (7)
                             No, "turning the other cheek" is not a solution. - (a6l6e6x) - (6)
                                 doesnt the targeted assainations do just that? - (boxley) - (2)
                                     Sure, to some degree. - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                         arresting them is one thing - (boxley)
                                 actually a ghandi approach would work - (boxley) - (2)
                                     Point taken. -NT - (a6l6e6x)
                                     Sound psychology, but - (Ashton)
                     I think I'm fairly even-handed. - (Another Scott) - (7)
                         Not a problem with the resolution - (boxley)
                         What UN Resolution 242 really says - (bluke) - (5)
                             I think the English is clear. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                 You can't ignore the context - (bluke) - (3)
                                     I'm not ignoring the context. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                         please continue - (boxley)
                                         Land for peace - (bluke)

Living in our own private Idaho.
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