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New Why Sharon doesn't want int'l observers
Let us look at how the international community treats Israel. In Lebanon what exactly has UNIFIL done? At best, they watched Hizbullah kidnap 3 Israeli soldiers (in reality they may have actually helped Hizbullah), took a video of it and denied for months that such a video existed, and then refused to show Israel an unedited copy of the video. Have they stopped a single Hizbullah cross border attack? If this is the case what on earth will international observers do here?
There is going to be a conference on Racism in Durban South Africa, the main issue to be discussed is Israel and Zionism. Whatever you think of Israel, is it really the main human rights and racism problem in the world today? What about the Taliban who destroyed ancient Buddhist artifacts, are making non-Muslims wear badges on their clothes, about to execute Christians for trying to convert Moslems, etc.? How about the Sudan where slavery still exists? How about China? What about Muammar Gaddafi of Libya who among other terrorist attacks, ordered the bombing of Pan Am 103? What about Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe who is allowing the killing of white farmers taking their land and giving it to blacks? How about Russia which has killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Chechnya? While Pol Pot was murdering two million of his own people, the international community devoted more time and energy to the status of Palestinian "refugees." Hutus and Tutsis chop one another's heads off with machetes in the tens of thousands with fewer calls for intervention than are heard after the death of one Palestinian in an Israeli retaliatory strike.
The double standards to which Israel is held further hint at the deeper source of the hatred of Israel. The BBC proclaims Prime Minister Ariel Sharon a war criminal, and Belgium would put him on trial for what he should have known about the murderous capabilities of the Christian Phalangists. Yet Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat, whose hands are drenched in blood, including 241 Marines killed in a 1983 car bombing of their barracks in Lebanon, is awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Arafat fears neither arrest in Belgium nor that the BBC will document his crimes any time soon. Israel is threatened with economic sanctions while China, in which citizens are routinely executed for minor economic "crimes," religion is brutally suppressed, and couples are sterilized after one child, is awarded the 2008 Summer Olympics by the international community. Why is it that some in Norway are threatening to arrest Carmi Gillon the new Israeli ambassador because of actions taken when he was head of the Israeli GSS and no one says a word about Vladimir Putin who was head of the KGB?

Every response by Israel to lethal attacks on its civilians and soldiers is condemned as "excessive force." Compared to what? The 1,000 Panamanian civilians killed by US forces in order to arrest Panamanian strongman Manuel Noriega on drug-running charges? The hundreds of Somalian civilians, including many unarmed women and children, killed by US peacekeepers in 1993? Did the US have more important interests in Panama or Somalia than Israel has protecting its citizens from attack in its heartland?

So, I ask you 1 simple question, does Israel have any reason to believe that international observers are going to be impartial?
New Re: Why Sharon doesn't want int'l observers
First, welcome to zIWeThey. I was hoping you were not left behind in the move.

I agree that partisan observers are of no use. But, surely someone in this world can be objective in what they see. At this point neither side of the conflict has much credibility. Everything is spin, yours included.

If all international observer are anti-Israeli, that should tell you something. And it's not that Jews have no friends. My conclusion is that Sharon knows fully well that, with more observers, the Israeli world image would suffer even more.

I agree with your point about the Racism conference. They can talk about Israel and the U.S. if they want, but these belong at the bottom of list not the top.
Alex

Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not certain about the universe.
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
New Re: Why Sharon doesn't want int'l observers
What did I say that was spin? You didn't answer a single point that I made. What the UN did in Lebanon is fact, they admitted that they covered up the fact that they had a videotape, they imposed conditions etc. How can you explain that there have been more anti-Israel resolutions in the UN then anyone else? The fact is that Israel is at the top of the racism conference not the bottom, tell me why? When you find thos impartial observers let me know, until then Israel can do without them.
New Re: Why Sharon doesn't want int'l observers
Well I got to see it on PBS (Public Broadcasting Service) news tonight (Aug 18, here). An unarmed Palestinian/Israeli Arab (who can tell?) protesting in front of Orient House being beaten by at least half dozen Israeli soldiers with rifle butts, fists, and when he was down on the ground being kicked. Very impressive! But, you know, I don't think their shirts were the right brown color.

Yes, I can see why observers are not wanted.
Alex

Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not certain about the universe.
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
New Your point, it seems...
is that there are a lot terrible things done by and to a lot of people including by the United States. So, Israel should be not criticized for doing its share of these things.

Fine. Continue with your race to the bottom. Build your Auschwitz in the Sinai and solve your "Arab Problem". Surely the Arabs deserve their own holocaust.

I had higher hopes for you.
Alex

Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not certain about the universe.
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
New just a couple of reservations dont need auswitz
we'll even provide the Arab Health care service to modelled on your Indian Health care service, that should do them in soon enough. :)
thanx,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New Re: just a couple of reservations dont need auswitz
Do you mean the measles infected blankets, or something more subtle?
Alex

Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not certain about the universe.
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
New The state of Indian Health care
Indian Health care is provided by the BIA under the BLM. Provides Health care on reservations. For example in 1986 In Reno NV the local BIA clinic's Sole Dr for 5k Local Indians told me that hospitalization on The Res hospital was a virtual death sentence. Diagnostic equipment from the 1930's and Docs that he said he wouldnt trust to treat his wifes dog and he didnt like his wifes dog. It is getting better lately because the tribes have been insisting that the government contract out the administration of these clinicsan hospitals to the tribes. Before a beaurocrat in DC would make all decisions icluding the hiring of Docs and wouldnt pay squat so you got only the poor quality physicians that couldnt get a job anywhere else. Government run healthcare is a dangerous joke. Less money is allocated for more people every year.
thanx,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
New No my point is...
That with all these much worse things going on in the world why is Israel being singled out? And based on this why should I believe that international observers will be impartial?
New A less conspiratorial answer might be,
the often utter irrelevancy of 'The Press' - by which I mean the fewer and fewer giant Press Corporations - whose BODs certainly affect content in ways much more subtly than by overtly "reviewing editors' copy".

Take the Murican press: the OJ soap opera, the Monika Lewinsky utter feeding frenzy .. in UK - the periodic Profumo-like scandals. Anything to do with The Royals\ufffd. Each topic takes on a media (thus *ad* revenue) frenzy of its own: a classic servo feedback loop.

Clearly - to some extent - the populace laps up this kind of simple gossip, as is legendary homo-sap social behavior. Personally I doubt that, even the ovine plurality (??) is actually That juvenile; in whatever event - the phenom makes each group appear to be even more inane than is likely 'true'.

Israel VS Everyone around it! + the mastery of modern spin + the bluster, hatred and just plain idiocy.. of various interpretations of ancient texts: all combine to create an irresistible morass of innuendo, magnification of asinine comments by patently biased loudmouths and - death.

And still, IMhO, all the -isms remain 'out there', no matter what lip-service is paid to the magnificent ideas of Tolerance and of Compassion. (Especially by the warring religions and the often purely Hate-filled utterances of their spokesmen.) Anti-Semitism abounds in 'Aryan' (!!) mentations.

In Murica, 'least during my childhood and beyond, while we had derogatory stereotypes for Every identifiable group - I noted that Jews were accorded about the foulest caricatures except for just two cases which come to mind:

Blacks / Negroes then - and the grotesque drawings of 'The Jap' in WW-II. (Even the ones of Hitler or ~your average German soldier were far less dehumanized) -- though the Nazi caricatures of Jews as vermin: probably remains the low point of human bestiality in print (? could easily be wrong; we are so Good at dehumanizing other human 'aliens').

Odd thing though: so also are the 'Arabs' ~Semitic! nor do their state religions have much nice to say about Aryan-types and Their (Also, One True\ufffd) religions.

So in the end, it can't be just about ethnicity or the theological - pick yer fav Testament to kill about? - but something Else which lately gives less benefit of doubt to: Israel.

Lousy PR? or just tawdry and provoked stupidity of the sort, why can't the nasty Jews summon up a couple thousand km\ufffd from the sea -- for those Poor Palestinians whose Jordanian and other 'brothers' won't give shit to em'? Huh?

How does it go? - never ascribe to cupidity / conspiracy, that which can be explained by ignorance..


A.
     someone might want to take the tablecloth off of his head - (boxley) - (36)
         I understand your anger, but more killing won't fix anything - (Another Scott) - (35)
             uh err that wouldnt be my way. - (boxley) - (34)
                 Sorry I seem to have misunderstood. But... - (Another Scott) - (33)
                     hmm - (boxley) - (4)
                         Hamas != Palestinian Authority just as Israel's Govt != Kach -NT - (Another Scott) - (3)
                             Re: Hamas != Palestinian Authority - (bluke) - (1)
                                 This may be the natural outgrowth of an attitude that - (Ashton)
                             Arafat includes Hamas as part of decision making - (bluke)
                     Agree with most of what you say. - (a6l6e6x) - (27)
                         nope both agrieved and the reason for no observers is - (boxley) - (16)
                             Re: Observers - (a6l6e6x) - (15)
                                 nope they have shown their partisan face one 2 many times -NT - (boxley) - (14)
                                     This statement from AI seems evenhanded to me. - (a6l6e6x) - (13)
                                         even handed my ass - (boxley) - (12)
                                             Re: even handed my ass - (a6l6e6x) - (11)
                                                 America, Britain - (boxley) - (10)
                                                     Re: Never again. - (a6l6e6x) - (9)
                                                         perhaps your definition of just coexistance - (boxley) - (8)
                                                             Re: perhaps your definition of just coexistance - (a6l6e6x) - (7)
                                                                 I disagree about the settlements - (boxley)
                                                                 Orient House and settlements - (bluke) - (5)
                                                                     So the people in Hebron - (boxley) - (4)
                                                                         Re: So the people in Hebron - (bluke) - (3)
                                                                             understood but disagree - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                                 Re: understood but disagree - (bluke) - (1)
                                                                                     It is not abandoned, just not occupied at present - (boxley)
                         Why Sharon doesn't want int'l observers - (bluke) - (9)
                             Re: Why Sharon doesn't want int'l observers - (a6l6e6x) - (2)
                                 Re: Why Sharon doesn't want int'l observers - (bluke) - (1)
                                     Re: Why Sharon doesn't want int'l observers - (a6l6e6x)
                             Your point, it seems... - (a6l6e6x) - (5)
                                 just a couple of reservations dont need auswitz - (boxley) - (2)
                                     Re: just a couple of reservations dont need auswitz - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                         The state of Indian Health care - (boxley)
                                 No my point is... - (bluke) - (1)
                                     A less conspiratorial answer might be, - (Ashton)

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