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New Would you put a cell tower on your land?
How much is it worth versus health issues. Versus neighbors who don't want it. I'm 58 with another 10 years expected. I don't think that radiation will touch me in any manner that will harm me as compared to anything that's already killing me.

How would you go about it? Who do you contact, who do you pitch to?

Cell phone coverage in my neighborhood is incredibly bad and everyone knows it. As far as I'm concerned this is a community service. And we're a bunch of old folks. I don't see any children to fry. So while I may accept some of the craziness associated with radiation from cell phone towers and I wouldn't raise a kid next to one I have no issue living next to one.
New On average, you would expect 23.3 more years.
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

Presumably your county or local legal jurisdiction has information about current towers and plans for new ones. I complained to my local reps about bad cell coverage a few years ago. They said there were plans for "microcell" towers to go up (partly to address the opposition to some people in another subdivision who didn't want big towers even on school grounds). They've been rolled out (I think they're 5G and roughly 500 feet apart on a bee-line).

AFAIK, the cell providers generally share towers, somehow, so you need to contact that entity and not the service providers themselves.

Good luck!

Cheers,
Scott.
New I'm not average
High cholesterol, high blood pressure, smoker during puberty. Smoker now. Heart attack in jail. Tumor removed a few years ago. State controlled drug addict for mushroom usage. Bad teeth. Bad back. Scoliosis that presses hard on various nerves and muscle groups. Bad joints. Shoulders and hips that dislocate all the time and sometimes don't go back in for way too long. There is a wheelchair in my future and when that happens I'll kill myself so it might actually be before 68.

I know I look great. I can fake being healthy really well for a bit. 162 on last weigh-in and I've got sculpted muscles in my gut. But it's all looks.

Dad died at 68. And his health was far better than mine. And his access to expensive healthcare was far better than mine. Males of this family do not live long. My mom added a bunch more crap to that gene pool.

And nothing focuses health history better than trying to write one and realizing it goes about 15 pages. And that's the abbreviated version. Variety of drugs that I do VS will NOT do, what I can combine and can't and my various rationales. Almost everything they put me on causes physical dependency and s***** side effects so I juggle and never take anything for more than a couple of days other than the blood pressure meds. And I swap back and forth with alcohol. The condensed version. And dropping it on a new doctor's desk. I get some wild eyed reactions and then they are then very happy not to have to type all this s*** in. Just give them an electronic copy and put it in the record.

I doubt any doctor has ever seen a patient like me. Combine the physical with the mental and I am a challenge. I am an incredibly low maintenance patient. I've accepted who I am, I am merely informing.

I strongly suggest that anyone who has any type of medical history and goes to a new doctor create this type of document. And refuse to answer any questions until they have read it. In the past a new doctor to me would be years of painful conversations before it finally clicked. Now it's 15 minutes.

I just found a new dentist. A surgeon. Someone who lectures. Someone who has very strong religious viewpoints that definitely contradict with my life. His religious materials are strategically placed everywhere. I really want him to work on me. But I really don't want him to find out who I am while he's drilling my tooth. And novocaine wears off on me. I need very special handling. So I will hand this to him and let him decline me as a patient if that's what he wants to do.
Expand Edited by crazy Jan. 25, 2022, 02:13:56 AM EST
Expand Edited by crazy Jan. 25, 2022, 02:20:49 AM EST
Expand Edited by crazy Jan. 25, 2022, 02:27:48 AM EST
Expand Edited by crazy Jan. 25, 2022, 02:37:38 AM EST
Expand Edited by crazy Jan. 25, 2022, 02:42:54 AM EST
New I'd put one on my fuckin' roof.
There's no health issues.
New Re: I'd put one on my fuckin' roof.
Yeah I get it. Me too. But I got to figure out whether or not I want to annoy my neighbors too much. F*** them.

They have to decide whether or not it's worth paying me and I have to get a lawyer to get a good contract. But generally, anyone who wants to tell me what to do with my property, f*** them.
New How big's your property?
I mean, I'd be a little pissed off if next door erected one such that it blocked out the sun on a nice day when we're sitting out, but if it was 50 metres away, I'd be all "ooh, maximum bars!"
New Point 4 acres
The tower would be about 30 yards from his house. There is already a very high privacy fence.

And it will never block out the sun. Sun angle of travel will never cross the tower and land a shadow on his house.
Expand Edited by crazy Jan. 25, 2022, 01:48:39 AM EST
New If it’s within a quarter mile, cancer risk triples.
That’s according to studies in Germany and Israel.
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
New Citation, please. That sounds like a nonsense study to me. Thanks.
New These are about the cell phone towers. Here's a link.
Cell Phone Towers. What Distance is Safe to Live?

Go down to "German Research on Cell Tower Safety" and "Israeli Mobile Phone Tower Research" sections.
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
New Thanks.
She's selling stuff and telling people who ask her questions that it's "up to you". The studies cited are very small, over 10 years and nearly impossible to control for confounding factors over that timeframe.

It's woo, IMHO.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Scott.
New She's selling stuff.
At the bottom of that page is this affiliate link:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TRM0UI4/ref=as_li_qf_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=theheahomec0a-20&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B00TRM0UI4&linkId=0fa1efc604177d856b37c5fddc6d46ac

And I can, one hundred percent, guaran-fuck-ing-tee that all that device does is transfer $49.99 plus shipping out of your bank account.

An admittedly cursory check for citations of the German paper (which is 18 years old at this point) shows it turning exclusively on woo-peddling sites like this:

https://es-ireland.com/masts-antennae/#:~:text=Research%20shows%20higher%20rates%20of%20illnesses%20and%20cancers,was%20three%20times%20as%20high.%20%28See%20Studies%20Below%29

Note the Gish Gallop of seemingly authoritative papers etc.

There's nothing on Cochrane.org about it. You'd think there'd be a systematic study available by now.

The American Cancer society is less breathless about it:

So far, not many studies in people have focused specifically on cellular phone towers and cancer risk, and the results of these studies have not provided clear answers.

A large British study comparing families of young children with cancer with families of children without cancer found no link between a mother’s exposure to the towers during pregnancy (based on the distance from the home to the nearest tower and on the amount of energy from RF waves given off by nearby towers) and the risk of early childhood cancer.

Researchers in Taiwan compared children with cancer to a group of similar children without cancer. They found slightly higher overall risk of cancer in those who lived in towns that had an estimated RF exposure from cell phone towers that was above the midpoint level in the study. However, this finding was less apparent when RF exposure was categorized in other ways.

Both of these studies relied on estimates of RF exposure. Neither of them measured the actual exposure of people to RF waves from nearby cell phone towers. This limitation makes it harder to know what the results of these studies might mean.

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/radiation-exposure/cellular-phone-towers.html

The UK is a densely-populated country and the majority of our cellular infrastructure is where the people are. If there was anything to either the German or Israeli papers, we should be seeing obvious clusters of additional cancers around the many, many cellular towers located in residential areas. If these clusters exist, no-one's talking about them. At all.
Expand Edited by pwhysall Jan. 26, 2022, 02:19:32 AM EST
New Re: "no-one's talking about them. At all."
Sure proof that it's being suppressed! Otherwise, where are all the wild, unfounded claims?

Think, man!
--

Drew
Expand Edited by drook Jan. 26, 2022, 08:46:34 AM EST
New Oh shit. Am I...
...sheeple?
New Flawed studies.
http://www.emfandhealth.com/Cell%20Towers%20Alarmist%20Studies.html

Critiques of both of those studies and others are included.

tl;dr: Insufficient sample sizes, statistically insignificant findings, cherry-picking of data, and absurd conclusions (eg. a cell tower in service for only one year caused cancers with typical gestations of several years). Each study looked only at a single tower, and as the WHO says: "Over 1.4 million base stations exist worldwide and the number is increasing significantly with the introduction of third generation technology.....Given the widespread presence of base stations in the environment, it is expected that possible cancer clusters will occur near base stations merely by chance."

More details and other studies on the same site.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Thanks.
What gets me about these studies on claimed causation is that it's really really hard to do them well and there's usually no evidence that they tried to do them well.

E.g.

1) Every real distribution has weird outliers out at 4, 5, 6 sigma. Just from the random nature of life and from the fact that a study cannot control every single variable.

2) Things that are known carcinogens or disease causing agents - radon, lead in the air and the ground and the water, stuff picked up in food, viruses, genetic factors, etc. - are extremely difficult to control for. But they are much much more likely to cause these "clusters of cancers" than the tiny amount of scary "EMF" coming from radios and towers.

3) What is the physical, chemical, and biological basis for these claimed increased cancers? The radiated power and energy density is too low to cause these scary effects based on what we know about how the world actually works. What do experts who dedicate their lives to these fields say, as opposed to people outside the fields who are selling stuff on a blog?

4) Why are these scary claims never "marked to market"? I'm old enough to remember that everyone was going to get brain cancer from their cell phones. What happened there?? (Part of it is that digital cell phones are much more sensitive now so they don't need to broadcast as much power as in the analog days. But if there were an actual danger, we would still expect to see huge numbers of case of cell-phone-caused brain cancer because over half of the planet is using them now...)

Etc.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Scott.
New On the one hand ...
It's possible that increased incidence of cancer is masked by increased mortality due to other unrelated factors.

On the other hand, that suggests that maybe we should work on those factors first.

Oh the other other hand ... unless we're building infrastructure that has cumulative effects that we won't recognize until it's too difficult / expensive to swap it out for something else.
--

Drew
New I'm glad you found something so specific.
Alex

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-- Isaac Asimov
New Re: If it’s within a quarter mile, cancer risk triples.
https://forum.iwethey.org/forum/post/440586/

That's for phones, which are a lot closer to your head than a quarter of a mile.

Also, here in the UK, we'd have noticed; we have a lot of cell towers in populated areas.
Expand Edited by pwhysall Jan. 25, 2022, 01:30:41 AM EST
Expand Edited by pwhysall Jan. 25, 2022, 01:31:32 AM EST
New Thank you all.
Great information for me to follow up on. I appreciate it. Now go check out the review I'm about to post.
     Would you put a cell tower on your land? - (crazy) - (19)
         On average, you would expect 23.3 more years. - (Another Scott) - (1)
             I'm not average - (crazy)
         I'd put one on my fuckin' roof. - (pwhysall) - (3)
             Re: I'd put one on my fuckin' roof. - (crazy) - (2)
                 How big's your property? - (pwhysall) - (1)
                     Point 4 acres - (crazy)
         If it’s within a quarter mile, cancer risk triples. - (a6l6e6x) - (11)
             Citation, please. That sounds like a nonsense study to me. Thanks. -NT - (Another Scott) - (9)
                 These are about the cell phone towers. Here's a link. - (a6l6e6x) - (8)
                     Thanks. - (Another Scott)
                     She's selling stuff. - (pwhysall) - (2)
                         Re: "no-one's talking about them. At all." - (drook) - (1)
                             Oh shit. Am I... - (pwhysall)
                     Flawed studies. - (malraux) - (3)
                         Thanks. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                             On the one hand ... - (drook)
                         I'm glad you found something so specific. -NT - (a6l6e6x)
             Re: If it’s within a quarter mile, cancer risk triples. - (pwhysall)
         Thank you all. - (crazy)

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