Things you forget about desktop computers

Post #434,395 by drook 6/9/20 10:33:16 PM 6/9/20 10:33:16 PM Reply	Things you forget about desktop computers They don't do sound until you plug in a set of speakers. And I have no idea where I've got any. Balls. -- Drew
Post #434,396 by a6l6e6x 6/9/20 10:56:34 PM 6/9/20 10:56:34 PM Reply	Are you sure? They are usually attached to the case frame behind the front panel. Could it simply not have been connected to the motherboard? But, it's been at least a decade since I've assembled a desktop PC. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #434,404 by scoenye 6/10/20 7:51:09 AM 6/10/20 7:51:09 AM Reply	The part that goes "beep"? PCs with internal speakers hooked to the sound card are rather rare. They made little sense in an office setting. IIRC, some of HPs later models had sound built-in but you almost had to hold your ear to the case to make it out. The monitor may have embedded speakers, though.
Post #434,406 by drook 6/10/20 10:02:43 AM 6/10/20 10:02:43 AM Reply	I had one of those ... yes, nearly useless -- Drew
Post #434,407 by mmoffitt 6/10/20 12:05:31 PM 6/10/20 12:05:31 PM Reply	Microsoft had a PC Speaker driver at one point. Might have been an "internal tool" I got from a buddy. But I remember installing it and getting some sort of sound out of it around 1991 or so. Doubtless 16-bit. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #434,436 by static 6/11/20 11:46:06 PM 6/11/20 11:46:06 PM Reply	Yes, it was a 16-bit Windows thing. I remember it too. Not much more than a novelty, really. Wade.
Post #434,397 by Andrew Grygus 6/9/20 11:02:17 PM 6/9/20 11:02:17 PM Reply	Desktop computers? Is there some other kind? Oh, yeah, there's notebook computers. I have one of those, and use it every 4 months or so on a client call. I have a tablet which I have never used (and I guess nobody else uses those either). Do you call those mobile "smart phones" computers? I'm not too happy with the Android version of Chrome, but I only have to use it to check Web page display. Mercifully, only one of my computers, the one I edit music with (using Audacity) actually has speakers. I like quiet.
Post #434,401 by drook 6/10/20 12:52:16 AM 6/10/20 12:52:16 AM Reply	Servers, workstations, mainframes, embedded ... Yeah, quite a few other kinds. -- Drew
Post #434,402 by Andrew Grygus 6/10/20 1:47:27 AM 6/10/20 1:47:27 AM Reply	Re: Servers, workstations, mainframes, embedded ... Yeah, quite a few other kinds. Yeah, I know all about those, and have worked on most of them. You forgot supercomputers, mini-computers, etc., but none of those are used for personal Web browsing, listening to music, or (heaven help us) YouTube sound tracks. Most don't even have a place to plug speakers in.
Post #434,403 by pwhysall 6/10/20 2:36:57 AM 6/10/20 2:36:57 AM Reply	Most browsing and media consumption is on handheld devices these days, afaik And in the US, nearly half of those are iPhones. Desktops still exist, obv, but they are handily outsold by laptops.
Post #434,420 by Andrew Grygus 6/10/20 11:27:31 PM 6/10/20 11:27:31 PM Reply	Google says . . . almost 2/3 of visitors to my Web site are from "mobile devices", so I have adjusted my pages so they display as well as they can on such devices - at least if they're Android and held horizontal. I'm not anxious to spend the money to find out how they look on i(anythings). Google has moved me to their new (in development) "Mobile First" spider, which has found no serious problems and very few (and declining) minor issues. The site still works a hell of a lot better on a full screen, and is impossible to make significantly better on mobile devices. A little more than 1/3 of my visitors are desktops, and maybe 5 to 7 are tablets.
Post #434,425 by malraux 6/11/20 12:48:41 PM 6/11/20 12:48:41 PM Reply	Try BrowserStack for testing. https://www.browserstack.com/ They have some kind of free plan too. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #434,411 by CRConrad 6/10/20 3:50:46 PM 6/11/20 5:56:18 AM Reply	With desktop peripherals, laptops/notebooks ARE desktops. I prefer the desktop way of working -- mouse, big screen (or preferably two), separate (usually better) keyboard. Usually works a lot better than the comparably tiny laptop IO devices. But I can easily hook those desktop devices up to my laptop, and then it becomes a desktop. All the same mod cons, except it also still has all the built-in ones, so I can take it with me if and when I want. What's not to love?!? (Writing this on Little Red Riding Hood on my balcony. Looking in through the window, I see my humongo-screen on the dining room table[], where it's hooked up to my work laptop. I'd have to stand up; from this angle the mouse and keyboard aren't visible.) []: Inspired at least partly by writing this, I remembered that the screen has a swiveling stand. Now swiveling it to the right, I can see what's actually on the screen (at least major changes) from out here. Aha, query seems to have run; time to go back in and continue work. [/Edit] -- Christian R. Conrad** The Man Who (used to think he) Knows Fucking Everything Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi Edited by CRConrad June 11, 2020, 05:56:18 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #434,414 by drook 6/10/20 6:18:05 PM 6/10/20 6:18:05 PM Reply	As long as there's a dock so I only need to fiddle with one plug -- Drew
Post #434,417 by CRConrad 6/10/20 7:10:01 PM 6/10/20 7:10:01 PM Reply	Yeah, that would be even nicer. We have docks for the laptops at work, but none for home. Now that I've been WFH for, what is it, two months now?, I could of course have fetched the one from the office... But WTH, I have that one plugged in pretty much all the time. For LRRH it would be even better, since I move it around more often, but I don't think there even is a dock for this model. I went with wireless mouse and keyboard partly in order to simplify that hassle; both are somewhat fancy models that are supposed to be able to bluetooth-pair to different machines and switch between them at the press of a button. Doesn't seem to work that well in practice. ☹️ (OK within post body, crazypants?) On switching back to the other machine, the machine has forgotten about the peripheral and a bunch of clicking to re-pair is needed anyway. Not to worry, though, I found a solution: Both mouse and KB also support 2.4 GHz RF connections using those little USB dongles, like Logitech mice. So I have a "poor-man's dock" in the shape of a two-buck (I kid you not -- 1.95€, poor-man's indeed!) USB hub that I plugged both the receivers (and the wired Jabra mike-headphones) into, and then I just rip that out and plug it into the other one when switching machines. -- Christian R. Conrad The Man Who (used to think he) Knows Fucking Everything Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
Post #434,421 by Andrew Grygus 6/10/20 11:33:36 PM 6/10/20 11:33:36 PM Reply	Well, my (remaining) clients mostly perfer . . . . . desktops, but never on the desk, and they prefer two large displays. The financial manager for one of them is working from home, so the company bought her a desktop and two screens. They asked me to install a dual monitor video card, which I did.
Post #434,423 by CRConrad 6/11/20 5:59:45 AM 6/11/20 5:59:45 AM Reply	"install a dual monitor video card"... When was this, in 1987? All laptops I've used for the last decade or so support two (or three!) monitors out of the box, no additional equipment needed. -- Christian R. Conrad The Man Who (used to think he) Knows Fucking Everything Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
Post #434,437 by static 6/11/20 11:49:31 PM 6/11/20 11:49:31 PM Reply	A lot of desktops have embedded video. Fine for a lot of tasks. But only one monitor supported. Wade.
Post #434,441 by Andrew Grygus 6/12/20 1:37:54 AM 6/12/20 1:37:54 AM Reply	Which was the case here. HPs tend to be highly crippled, but this one at least had a PCIe16 slot. It was also low profile, but, fortunately, the video card I'd selected came with optional low profile brackets. Fortunately, I had the foresight to take a HDMI to VGA adapter, because both their monitors had only VGA cables. I knew there would likely be limitations and prepared for them. The family that owns this company is very wealthy, so, of course, they bought their office/finance manager refurbed equipment at the lowest price. That's just the way wealthy people are.
Post #434,443 by CRConrad 6/12/20 5:10:04 AM 6/12/20 5:10:04 AM Reply	Utterly fucking weird. I don't get it. Are you saying HP goes to extra lengths to disable even the basic functionality Intel includes on its cheapo processors? Funny, that would mean an extra cost for a negative "benefit". Or that these people buy not only refurb machines (yeah, cheapskate move), but refurb boxes that are nearly a decade old? Funny, you'd think the antique collector's value would make those more expensive rather than less. Utterly fucking weird. -- Christian R. Conrad The Man Who (used to think he) Knows Fucking Everything Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
Post #434,452 by drook 6/12/20 12:20:04 PM 6/12/20 12:20:04 PM Reply	Hey, I'm using one of those low-profile HP desktops Difference is, I've had it for at least 10 years, and I got it as a work cast-off. I'm writing this on it right now as a matter of fact. -- Drew
Post #434,470 by scoenye 6/12/20 5:51:03 PM 6/12/20 5:51:03 PM Reply	It wouldn't have mattered much Recent HP boxes come with various permutations of DisplayPort and HDMI ports. VGA and DVI are getting rare as hen's teeth. Before I left my previous employer, I had the entire attic full of perfectly functional VGA monitors because we couldn't connect them to the round of Win 10 PCs they finally bought. (I picked the PCs. There just weren't any worth buying that came with 2 VGA ports.)
Post #434,482 by pwhysall 6/13/20 2:31:52 AM 6/13/20 2:31:52 AM Reply	Preach it Back before the lockdown and my WFH status, I was on the scrounge for a nicer monitor at work, and found a beautiful HP panel, 1920x1200 or thereabouts. "Come with me, my pretty", I said. Got it to my desk - VGA only. Laptop has HDMI and USB3/TB ports only. Motherfucker. I mean sure, I could have farted about purchasing adapters and whatnot, but at the end of the day, VGA is a dead, analogue standard which means pressing the auto-adjust button on the monitor every time the power goes out, or it randomly decides to forget its settings, and even then it's not quite right, and you have to adjust the phase or the sharpness or the FUCK THIS GIVE ME A DIGITAL CONNECTION IT'S TWENTY FUCKING TWENTY.
Post #434,488 by drook 6/13/20 9:28:40 AM 6/13/20 9:28:40 AM Reply	Note on USB3/TB and Macs At work we've got dual monitors mounted to each desk. I ordered docks for my group, mostly because I was tired of having to carry my dock around each morning. (Hot desking ... don't get me started.) The windows lappers work fine. Macs will either use one in extended mode, or both if you duplicate the main screen to both. It drives both just fine if you put the second in the HDMI. So no dock love for Mac users. -- Drew
Post #434,442 by CRConrad 6/12/20 5:04:16 AM 6/12/20 5:04:16 AM Reply	What's "embedded" video, if not what laptops have had since... Idunno, the Bronze Age? Lots of at least Intel integrated video chips support up to three monitors. From https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000025673/graphics.html : For the following graphics products, most combinations of HDMI, DVI, VGA, DisplayPort (DP), Embedded DP (eDP), and Intel® Wireless Display (Intel® WiDi) support three independent displays: Intel® UHD Graphics 605/610/620/630 Intel® HD Graphics 610/615/620/630 Intel® Iris® Plus Graphics 640/650/655 Intel® HD Graphics 500/505/510/515/520/530 Intel® Iris® Plus Graphics 540/550/580 Intel® HD Graphics 6000/5500 Intel® Iris® Graphics 6100/6200 Intel® HD Graphics 4200/4400/4600/5000 Intel® Iris® Graphics 5100/5200 That last one has apparently been around since 2013, and is integrated onto the processor itself. How much more "embedded" do things get? https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Iris-Graphics-5100.91977.0.html : The Intel Iris Graphics 5100 (GT3), also called HD Graphics 5100, is a processor graphics card included in some of the Haswell processors of 2013. -- Christian R. Conrad The Man Who (used to think he) Knows Fucking Everything Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi
Post #434,453 by drook 6/12/20 12:22:26 PM 6/12/20 12:22:26 PM Reply	Looking at the back of mine ... It's got VGA out, 6 USB, Cat 5 Ethernet, PS/2 for mouse and keyboard, and sound. So even if the chipset supports it there's no place to plug it in. -- Drew
Post #434,467 by CRConrad 6/12/20 5:19:07 PM 6/12/20 5:19:07 PM Reply	OK, no USB Type C, of course... But no DisplayPort (2007) or HDMI (2003)? Or even DVI (1999)?!?
Post #434,473 by Andrew Grygus 6/12/20 7:05:21 PM 6/12/20 7:08:16 PM Reply	Notebooks here are starting to come with HDMI . . . . . but if they do, they don't have VGA, thus still one video port. Many desktops now have two video ports, but I'm not sure if they support two monitors. I've also seen some with one HDMI only. I know that if you plug in a video card, the on-board video is automatically turned off, thus I just make things simply by installing a dual monitor video card. My time costs more than the video card. Edited by Andrew Grygus June 12, 2020, 07:08:16 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #434,480 by pwhysall 6/13/20 2:27:24 AM 6/13/20 2:27:24 AM Reply	My work laptop has only one HDMI port But it also supports video via USB-C, which is how I connect to two monitors when I'm in the office - one on the HDMI connection and one on the USB connection. My personal desktop here (which I built myself) has on-board graphics with DVI and HDMI out, which provides multi-monitor support. I don't use that, having a fast graphics card (AMD RX5700XT) for 3D work and games; this has 2 DP ports and an HDMI port, all of which can be used together. I think the two DP ports can also be used together with a single monitor, to drive very high resolution displays such as 8K.
Post #434,516 by Another Scott 6/15/20 12:25:10 AM 6/15/20 12:25:10 AM Reply	I got J a new Mac Mini and a 4K LG display recently. Beautiful screen and no real problems with the MacMini. But the display wouldn't show 4K on HDMI on the MacMini. I had to use a DisplayPort cable for it. Maybe that's a well-known issue, but it annoyed me for a while until I figured it out. There are still too many connectors. It's getting to be like plumbing connectors... I suppose once everything kinda standardizes on USB-C, then Apple will start using optical fibers to connect everything... Oh, and don't get me started on USB-C docks. I'm using one with my L390 laptop to drive 2 older Dell monitors and that works fine, but if I plug in a USB memory stick into the same dock then the monitors go blank. :-/ Grr... Cheers, Scott.
Post #434,518 by static 6/15/20 4:17:39 AM 6/15/20 4:17:39 AM Reply	USB-C "docks" and adapters... sigh Local electronics store has a range of USB-C things to other stuff, mostly for the MacBook crowd because that's all those things have. Far too many of them have HDMI plus other more desirable stuff - I'm thinking HDMI must be stupid cheap to add, given there's a way to get it directly over the USB-C connector. 2x USB-A plus HDMI. USB-A, SD card reader, HDMI. USB-A, USB-C, HDMI (Apple's standard one, actually). 2x 4K HDMI. Umm. It took me months to find a simple 1x USB-A socket. I settled for a "hub" that has three USB-A sockets plus inexplicably an Ethernet port, too! Standards are wonderful - so many to choose from. Wade.
Post #434,519 by drook 6/15/20 9:01:28 AM 6/15/20 9:01:28 AM Reply	Insert standard XKCD reference here -- Drew
Post #434,479 by drook 6/13/20 12:29:03 AM 6/13/20 12:29:03 AM Reply	Nope, nope, and nope -- Drew
Post #434,503 by static 6/14/20 6:14:39 AM 6/14/20 6:14:39 AM Reply	Not just the processor. The embedded graphics provides a way to do all the fancy schmancy drawing to an image buffer or three but it still needs a physical interface chip to provide a usable offboard connection. Laptops will typically have at least two: one driving an LVDS connection to the screen and a second (or third) driving sockets such as HDMI. But motherboards often have just one driving a HDMI or DisplayPort socket. Thus the limitation. Wade.

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