Assumes facts not in evidence.

Post #432,744 by mmoffitt 2/24/20 2:02:14 PM 2/24/20 2:02:14 PM Reply	Assumes facts not in evidence. >> ...Bernie nomination and then losing the House and not getting a Senate majority... What are you basing that upon? I recall a lot of Republicans (the self-serving clown Lindsey among them) freaking out that "if Trump wins, House and Senate will fall" in 2016. Are you in the Chris Matthews' club that says it's better to lose the Presidency and leave Trump in office for four years so that we can get a good, post-Clinton, corporate Democrat in 2024 than it is to win the Presidency with Bernie? Also, too, do you think any genuine Democrat (or sane Independent) wouldn't vote against Trump? If not, do you think those very same people are going to vote for the Democrat no matter who it is and then pull the lever for a candidate from the Cult of Trump? I don't see it. Finally, Bernie got greater than 8 per cent more of the votes than Biden's, Klobachar's and Buttigeig's Nevada voting percentages combined. I'm not saying any of that is proof, but the conventional mantra has gone from "Bernie can't win" to "Bernie will cost us the House and Senate" and the only evidence that has been presented thusfar in support of those conjectures is, "people over 65 don't like the word 'Socialist'." I find that an unconvincing argument. My own view is that Bernie stands at least as good a chance of winning the general and bringing in enough new voters in that general to win both houses as any of the candidates - and a better chance than many of them. Constantly berating, besmirching, misrepresenting and distorting Bernie's record and prospects, not to mention slandering his base is only increasing Trump's re-election prospects. Want a guaranteed loser? Disaffect half the people who vote in the Democratic Primaries. How'd going with the "safe candidate" work out for us four years ago? bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #432,756 by a6l6e6x 2/24/20 11:54:17 PM 2/24/20 11:54:17 PM Reply	Not that comlicated. The people that vote in primaries are not the same as the ones in elections. That's why usual candidates change what they say in their campaign as they become nominees. You have to attract conservative Democrats, Independents, Republicans with brains, and people with little interest in politics at all. Bernie is like a broken record and I have difficulty believing he can adapt. He has a long list of events and statements that can be used to successfully label him as a communist and project consequences. Only the young who do not remember the Cold War can let that pass. For another socialist example, even the main line Democrats are talking about the 150 million people losing the health insurance they have and are happy with. To be replaced by just an idea. As you well know, facts are one thing, but lies and spinning can make Bernie look pretty bad when the time comes. Right now however, he needs to be the Dem nominee. Some of the Bernie primary votes are actually Republican votes following Trump's instructions to go vote for the Democrat easiest to beat. You can certainly do that in South Carolina with no hassle at all. You just ask for a ballot. Other states allow temporary party affiliation changes to vote. All states have to allow people to change their party affiliation. Just today, Trump is talking how Democrats are trying to cheat Bernie out of the nomination. That's to turn off Bernie's supporters from supporting any other Democrats in November. As far as coattails go, I can tell you that black turnout for Bernie would not match the turn out for Biden. If a black voter doesn't vote at all because they don't care for Bernie, Jaime Harrison does not get a vote to be a US senator. Repeated often enough and Lindsey wins. As is, Jaime is only 2% behind Lindsey and has a chance. A good black voter turn out can make a difference. I don't know if what you claim Chris Matthews said is true, but I don't go along with it. If Trump does not lose this election, there will not be another real one. Over the 4 years that follow we'll wind up with a version of a Putin. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #432,759 by mmoffitt 2/25/20 8:20:50 AM 2/25/20 8:20:50 AM Reply	Nit. We already have a version of Putin. Also, ..., Chris Matthews: “I mean, he [Sanders] takes it [the Democratic Party] over, he sets the direction of the future of the party,” Matthews continued. “Maybe they’d rather wait four years and put in the Democrat that they like.” ... Former Hillary Clinton adviser and Democratic Party strategist Adrienne Elrod eagerly agreed. “That’s the big question, right?” Elrod said, “There are people that are concerned–strategists that are concerned–that Bernie Sanders being at the top of the ticket will force us to lose the House. I don’t necessarily think that’s the case.” “How about the future?” Matthews interjected. “It’s early,” Elrod continued. “How about losing the future?” Matthews prodded again. “It’s early,” Elrod repeated. Matthews, not quite finished, later compared Sanders’ crushing victory in Nevada–and prospect of winning the nomination–to the fall of the French army at the Maginot Line during World War II. Or, in simpler terms–he compared the Jewish presidential candidate’s win to the triumph of Nazism over the Third French Republic. Video clip and story here: https://lawandcrime.com/2020-election/chris-matthews-democratic-establishment-would-prefer-trump-to-bernie-sanders/ bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #432,782 by a6l6e6x 2/26/20 11:14:26 PM 2/26/20 11:14:27 PM Reply	Re: Nit. We already have a version of Putin. Also, ..., Well, not all media is under his control, Pravda (or Fox News) notwithstanding. Also, the court system is still struggling to be just, Attorney General Barr's efforts notwithstanding. But, even now, Trump is working on those changing those things. NY Times is being sued for libel. And in the Roger Stone trial he is attacking the judge as well as jurors by name. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #432,763 by boxley 2/25/20 11:36:08 AM 2/25/20 11:36:08 AM Reply	look finlandia already told us Bernie is Putin's puppet to re-elect trump why dont you get over bernie? :-) "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #432,764 by mmoffitt 2/25/20 12:32:11 PM 2/25/20 12:32:11 PM Reply	Not Bernie, per se. It's the fricking Red Scare I'm sick of hearing. The arguments are just plain, ordinary stupid. "Senator Sanders, your health care plan will cost $40 Trillion over the next ten years. How are you going to pay for it?" What kind of particular MORON do you have to be to come up with that question? Maybe you're not a moron. Maybe you recognize Americans as the Red-Scared MORONS that they are and you've got skin in the current game. Every study that has ever been done shows that an NHS SAVES MONEY over what we already have - and that includes the studies done by Right Wing think tanks. Sanders should turn the question right back on the IDIOT asking him the question and ask, "The most recent study on healthcare cost conducted by Yale University concluded that my plan will save $450 BILLION dollars. If we don't execute my plan, where are YOU going to come up with the extra 450 BILLION? And, if you can, tell me what you will say to the families who are going to be financially destroyed or perhaps even suffer a death because you want to spend the extra $450 BILLION?" FFS, the people posing that question are saying, "We can afford to spend $7.50 but HOW ON EARTH are you going to have us spend $5.00? We can't afford that! Are you some kind of Communist or something? Yes, we know half a million of us will die from lack of healthcare and no one will under your plan. But you want us to spend $5.00 instead of $7.50! We WANT to spend the $7.50 to maintain the spectacular healthcare delivery system we already have! We plainly cannot afford to get more for less!" There's STUPID and then there's Americans. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #432,766 by boxley 2/25/20 2:46:12 PM 2/25/20 2:46:12 PM Reply	yup "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #432,789 by CRConrad 2/27/20 9:30:39 AM 2/27/20 9:30:39 AM Reply	Learn to read and stop misrepresenting what others are saying. I said that Trump and Putin think they can sow confusion by "supporting" Bernie. That's because they think (or at least thought) he'll be the easiest to beat. That's not saying they're necessarily right, though. Because the way it's looking right now, Bernie is obviously the most popular candidate, and, well, duuuh... The most popular candidate is pretty fucking obviously the most likely to whip the other guy come the general. Now sit down and shut up; I'll correct Alex's old fuddy-duddy prejudices about stupid "electability" elsewhere. -- Christian R. Conrad The Man Who (used to think he) Knows Fucking Everything Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi

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