You'd have to rebuild society before that could work

Post #432,133 by drook 1/3/20 1:39:40 PM 1/3/20 1:39:40 PM Reply	You'd have to rebuild society before that could work Cleveland is the center of Cuyahoga County. There are 1.24 million people with a population density of 2,800/mi^2. According to a couple different studies: At somewhere around 3,000 people per square mile, it makes sense to operate some level of infrequent local bus service. Source A minimum density of about 11,5 thousand people/sq km is required before heavy rail (subway) development makes economic reason (red and pink area on the map). The density threshold at which light rail is cost-effective is about 7 thousand people/sq km (dark orange color). Source (Note that the train figures are per square km, putting it more than 2 1/2 times further out of reach.) Work and people are both too spread out to get by without cars. -- Drew
Post #432,134 by mmoffitt 1/3/20 2:58:19 PM 1/3/20 2:59:52 PM Reply	Heh. I wonder how does Scotland ever do it with only an average density of 65 people per square kilometer (Range is 8 persons per square kilometer in Highland Council area to 3,298 persons per square kilometer in Glasgow City Council area - both numbers well below what you cite as required)? Edit: Here's their rail map: https://www.scotrail.co.uk/sites/all/modules/interactive_map/assets/index.html bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again. Edited by mmoffitt Jan. 3, 2020, 02:59:52 PM EST Expand All History
Post #432,140 by Andrew Grygus 1/3/20 10:55:48 PM 1/3/20 10:55:49 PM Reply	Looks to me like . . . . . that Scotland map is all intercity heavy rail (freight and travelers) not commuter rail. Here in Los Angeles we have quite a lot of light rail with more planned, some heavy commuter rail and more planned - but even with all planned rail installed only patches of LA/Orange Counties will be covered. This is a combined city of more than 1000 square miles. Most will still have to use a car to get to rail stations, as they do now. It would take LA much more than 200 years to re-organize around rail - if we really wanted to. Los Angeles also has a LOT of very heavy freight rail, as 1/3 of this entire country's foreign commerce passes through Los Angeles (port of Los Angeles / Long Beach). Rail connects to huge "inland ports" that have been built on the desert, because there isn't nearly enough room in Los Angeles County for warehousing and distribution on that scale. Those railroads aren't shown on the commuter rail map. Much of that rail has been lowered or raised (at great cost) so it doesn't interfere with surface traffic. We also have a whole lot of bus service to most of the yellow area on that map (I live in a yellow area) but to use it for any distance will take hours where a car is minutes. Ecology and conservation enthusiasts always come up with plans that maximize the use of the one resource that is in critically short supply and not at all renewable, for any of us - time, as related to the shortness of life. Of course, for me, public transport is simply impossible. I need to travel the region a lot, with varying destinations and and with varying loads of tools and equipment, usually much more than can be carried on public transportation. What we really need is smaller more efficient cars, and for people to adjust to smaller, more efficient cars. Electric cars and hybrids are now very common here in LA County. When Toyota announced they'd sold a million Priuses, I wondered where they'd sold the other 12. You can't drive more than a few miles anywhere around here without seeing Teslas - they swarm here. I even see some of those electric BMWs that look like mineature Pontiac Azteks (what were they thinking?).
Post #432,164 by mmoffitt 1/6/20 9:00:01 AM 1/6/20 9:00:01 AM Reply	I was disputing population density requirements. The cited number required for "some level of infrequent bus service" was 3,000 per square mile. I don't know what "infrequent bus service" is, but I wouldn't exactly call this, a non-comprehensive bus schedule," infrequent. The population of Moffat is under 2,500. Moffat is a small rural village, iow. I'm not claiming that rail can replace all transportation in this country, only that it is an underutilized form of transportation. As are all forms of mass transit here. The point is no amount of batteries (look up the carbon footprint of their manufacture), cars (again, carbon footprint) and required roads (like tar? Have some more) is going to help much in the effort to keep this rock a healthy place for humans. I see high speed rail in the medians of our Interstate system as a more responsible, more efficient and far less polluting alternative to air travel and truck freight. I do not see it, nor am I suggesting that it could be, an alternative to automobiles. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #432,168 by drook 1/6/20 1:10:26 PM 1/6/20 1:10:26 PM Reply	Oh, for air and freight? Yeah, totally agree. -- Drew
Post #432,183 by malraux 1/6/20 6:31:19 PM 1/6/20 6:31:19 PM Reply	+1 Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #432,151 by Ashton 1/4/20 3:58:21 PM 1/4/20 4:04:18 PM Reply	Recall those HS 'physics' problems like, drop an egg from a roof.. successfully sans breakage? Methinks we need--for all the reasons mentioned--personal-wheels --> Indefinitely. Make these of lightweight materials (even carbon fibre as mass-demand drops costs). F=MA. Still.. lighter conveyance, fewer batteries needed etc.; make them two-tier for a start ..maybe three: A) for the commuter-grade daily jaunt, mainly. B) [Opt] more batteries thus diminishing return on lightness BUT with 200+ mileage/charge--proliferation of charging stations (+ good book to read at layover) you could do the long junkets. C) [with Huge annual Fed. tax] for the G-force junkies: 0-60 in 1.666 secs and like that. Problem solved. Just elect moi Dictator for liff (mine would be shorter thence)--someone would sniperate moi when I banned their personal-Humvee and '70 Buick Riviera, etc. See? Nothing is ever {really-simple} but tha above ain't so complexificated as many approaches already out there. As Conslutant: moi works for a mere $500/hr on ...turning-cars-into-safe-eggs. And you become ... (that's a yoke, Son). :-oTpy Edited by Ashton Jan. 4, 2020, 04:04:18 PM EST Expand All History
Post #432,192 by CRConrad 1/7/20 1:37:47 AM 1/7/20 1:37:47 AM Reply	This being Murica you're talking about, wouldn't you have to... ...build one in the first place, before you could re-build it? -- Christian R. Conrad The Man Who (used to think he) Knows Fucking Everything Mail: Same username as at the top left of this post, at iki.fi

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