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New solicit, accept, or receive. Russians did the soliciting, Trump et al did not accept as there was
nothing to receive. That help you out? No different than the dnc soliciting a foreign guy who knew another foreign guy guy to get salacious russian details on trump.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Please reread the concisely written ^above^ re the Operator, "OR"; it takes only ONE of three. HTH
New it takes only ONE of three and i did in fact show that he did not match any one of them
trump did not solicit, he was solicited
trump did not receive as nothing was offered.
trump did not accept as nothing was received
hth
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New We shall see, shalln't we?
Lawyers can argue either side of anything. That's their job, after all.

Let's see the evidence and hear the arguments before we decide that Donnie is as pure as the driven snow.

tl;dr - Just because something seems "obvious" to us based on our understanding of the text of the law, the clear meaning of words, and the evidence that we've heard about in the press, doesn't mean that he'll be found guilty. Look at Bob McDonnell.

Bob McDonnell convicted on 11 counts of corruption

Conviction vacated by SCOTUS over weaseling on the meaning of 'official act'

McDonnell was as guilty as sin. He sold his office. SCOTUS decided (even though it was 8:0) that he wasn't because, I guess, IOKIYAR.

FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New you are right all of the evidence or lack thereof is not available, but as far as obstruction goes..
hard case to prove all up hill as der trumpster is the chief executive. Go back a ways
https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2013/mayjune/feature/burr-versus-jefferson-versus-marshall
A remarkable aspect of the trial—one unique in American history—was the president’s micromanagement of the prosecution from the White House. The reasons for Jefferson’s personal involvement are unclear. Generally speaking, he was reluctant to delegate authority, and he also may have lacked full confidence in the government’s lawyers. And since he had already declared Burr guilty, he may have felt compelled to prove himself right. In any case, Jefferson’s numerous letters to George Hay, the federal attorney who was nominally in charge, contain detailed instructions about trial strategy, evidence, and witness interrogation. Jefferson even forwarded a batch of blank pardons to be used, at Hay’s discretion, to elicit evidence from reluctant witnesses. One such was Erick Bollman, a Burr associate, who pointedly refused in open court to accept a pardon for the crime of treason, a crime that he clearly did not commit. Burr’s lawyers took the occasion to blast the prosecution—and the president.

Jefferson’s involvement, which became common knowledge during the trial, turned out to be one of Burr’s main lines of defense. It also provided some of the trial’s most dramatic moments, notably when Luther Martin, one of Burr’s lawyers, denounced the author of the Declaration of Independence for behaving like “a king of Great Britain” and for unleashing “the dogs of war, the hell hounds of persecution” against an innocent man for personal reasons.
no impeachment, no charges and in american law precedent matters.

blank pardon forms? not the first time and in this case maybe not the last.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New FFS, box.
Don Jr. proactively set up the meeting with other campaign officials precisely (to quote the President), "to get information on an opponent." Since that may be too difficult for you to follow, ...

1. Don Jr. hears the Russians have oppo research (a thing of clear value) on Hillary.
2. Don Jr. and other campaign folks arrange a meeting to receive that thing of value.

The setting up of that meeting to receive "a thing of value" from a foreign entity is plainly soliciting that thing of value from a foreign entity.

Dude, this is a "Baby Ray has three ducks" sort of thing to work out.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Re: FFS, box. Jr isn't the president
When the Clinton's Chinese bagme. Were caught it was the bagmen not the Clintons who went to jail
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New You persist in Not Noticing: The Two were jointly in violation; Jr's dossier is beside the *Point
* "jointly and severally" and the other legal pseudo-science jargon.
New Don't quit yet day job, kitties need you more than the courts do
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Jesus Christ on a pogo stick! You're not one of those are you?
You think junior didn't clear this meeting first with daddy? Even when Trump's own personal lawyer says he did?
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Do you understand the legal term hearsay?
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New "Russia, if you're listening I hope you can find ..."
Candidate Donald Trump vowed to expose dirt on his political opponents Bill and Hillary Clinton just two days before the controversial 2016 Trump Tower meeting that his former lawyer Michael Cohen insisted Trump knew about.

Trump never delivered on his promise after his eldest son Donald Trump Jr., son-in-law Jared Kushner and then campaign manager Paul Manafort met with attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya in 2016. The men expected to be presented with damaging information about Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton, but the attorney failed to deliver, Donald Trump Jr. told Senate investigators.

His father’s promised speech on the Clintons then sank without a trace.

Trump railed against Hillary Clinton to supporters after he won the New Jersey primary that same week. “I am going to give a major speech on probably Monday of next week and we’re going to be discussing all of the things that have taken place with the Clintons,” he told them. “I think you’re going to find it very informative and very, very interesting.” (He announced the Clinton speech in the video above at 7:08)

Donald Jr.′s meeting with Veselnitskaya took place two days later on Thursday, June 9. His father’s promised June 13 speech never occurred, and no explanation was ever offered.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-promised-clinton-dirt-before-trump-tower-meeting_us_5b5be524e4b0de86f4974fa3

That ain't heresay, that's circumstantial corroboration direct from the orangutan's horse's mouth. HTH.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New You lose box
And you know how much I hate to agree with MM!

Sure, he may find some wiggle, and you will support whatever silliness he clames as a legal maneuver, but the bottom line is the kid accepted the offer (enthusiastically) and now the only question is did he tell daddy (we already know he lied to congress, perjury).

Since the likelihood is that he did (as per multiple sources) then it is a political issue, ie: is Pence worse?

My point of view is no, give it to Pence for a couple of years with a strong opposition House, which will allow us to ride out the stupity.
New No. Problem with your solution but nothing so far will do. that
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New You got a hormone imbalance?
Because your periods are coming at odd times.
--

Drew
New Ouch.
It parses fine without the periods. ;-)

Don't you hate it when your phone refuses to let you have 2 spaces without throwing up a period? I do.

Cheers,
Scott.
(Who remembers, perhaps incorrectly, that Box has some vision issues.)
New Crap Android phone want my mickeysoft back
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New You may also like ...
From today's LA Times.

The meeting wasn’t ‘totally legal’

President Trump’s tweet underlines charges of ‘conspiracy to defraud.’
By Harry Litman and David Lieberman

Exposing a long-standing lie blunt even by his standards, President Trump on Sunday confessed by tweet that the purpose of the June 9, 2016, Trump Tower meeting between his campaign and a Kremlin-linked lawyer was “to get information on an opponent, totally legal and done all the time in politics.”

It was left to his lawyer Jay Sekulow to try to clean up the mess. Addressing whether the meeting constituted a criminal violation, Sekulow told George Stephanopoulos on ABC’s “This Week” that “you have to look at what laws, rules, regulations, statutes are purportedly violated here.”

So let’s do that. Meeting with a foreign power to get assistance with a presidential campaign is not totally legal; special counsel Robert S. Mueller III almost certainly could indict Donald Trump Jr. today for what is publicly known about the meeting; and the president should be deeply concerned about his own liability.

Mueller’s February indictment of the Internet Research Agency, and associated Russian entities and individuals, charged a conspiracy to influence the election to damage Hillary Clinton, Sens. Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and support Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump — let’s call it an electioneering conspiracy. The indictment charged violations of 18 U.S. Code § 371 — conspiracy to commit an offense against or to defraud the United States.

Under the “defraud clause,” as precedent and the U.S. Attorneys’ Manual make clear, the statute criminalizes “any conspiracy for the purpose of impairing, obstructing or defeating the lawful function of any department of government,” even if the object of the conspiracy is not a criminal offense. According to Mueller’s indictment, the conspiracy sought to defraud the Federal Election Commission and the Department of Justice — the agencies charged with preventing foreign nationals from making contributions, donations or expenditures (which can include not just money, but any “thing of value”) that would influence U.S. elections.

Conspiracy law, it’s important to note, punishes the act of agreeing to a forbidden goal regardless of whether that goal is achieved. So long as the government can establish that targets agreed to pursue the conspiratorial objective, they may be prosecuted as co-conspirators. Conspirators need only agree to help bring about the object of a conspiracy even if they are not aware of all the details of the conspiracy itself. For example, in “chain conspiracies” usually involving narcotics, lower-level buyers and sellers are included in larger distribution conspiracy so long as they have some understanding of the existence of the larger plot.

The Trump Tower meeting clearly fits established definitions of “conspiracy to defraud the United States.” In early June, Trump Jr. received an email explaining that a Russian government official wanted to provide his father’s campaign with incriminating documents and information about Clinton as part of “Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.” Trump Jr. replied, “if it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.” The June 9 meeting was confirmed two days earlier, on June 7. That night, Trump announced he would “give a major speech” in the next week to discuss “the things that have taken place with the Clintons.”

On the face of it, Trump Jr. was approached by a foreign government seeking to influence an American election. Trump Jr. welcomed the possibility of influence, and candidate Trump’s actions, while circumstantial, indicate that he intended to make use of that information. It is irrelevant, in conspiracy law, that Trump Jr. found the information ultimately worthless, or as Trump said, that “it went nowhere.”

Michael Cohen’s allegations last week must have deeply terrified the president and those looking out for his legal interests. Cohen, the president’s former lawyer and “fixer,” reportedly is willing to tell Mueller that he was in the room when Trump heard about and approved the June 9 meeting. That would potentially place the president at the center of the decision to join the electioneering conspiracy.

Trump’s later documented effort to dictate a false statement about the meeting looks like an attempt to cover up his culpability. A prosecutor and jury are entitled to view a cover-up as evidence of participation in the conspiracy.

More than one year after telling the world that the June 2016 meeting was about adoptions, Trump and his eldest son stand stripped of their false cover. There is no more denying that the meeting sought to enlist the help of a hostile power to swing the election Trump’s way. The effort and the false statements about it were plainly deplorable. Whether they also were illegal turns on questions of law that Trump cannot obfuscate or control. They are what they are. Mueller already has laid the legal predicate for the Trumps’ guilt. Trump is at last playing in a legit game, and his hand is weak.

Harry Litman , a former deputy assistant attorney general, teaches constitutional law at UC San Diego. David Lieberman, a former Massachusetts assistant attorney general, is a lawyer with the Whistleblower Law Collaborative.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Need to understand this about William B
Boxley. Hates. Clintons.

This is his governing principle. It is the lens through which his entire perception of US politics is refracted. Trump cannot have prevailed in 2016 by illegitimate means because:

Boxley. Hates. Clintons.

Nothing else matters. No evidence can be contemplated that gainsays the premise that the Clintons are illegitimate and undeserving to govern. As soon as this is understood—and I realize that I am likely preaching to the choir here—his rants will at least evince an internal consistency, if not the slightest particle of actual sense.

Glad I could help out.

cordially,
New "Trump cannot have prevailed in 2016 by illegitimate means" you are wrong there
He may have, but all the howling about Clinton because Russia doesnt mean a damn thing because she was not only unfit (trump is unfit as well) but stupid to boot.

The thing that galls me about that race was the fucking ENTITLEMENT

She didnt run, mailed in the campaign.

Made obvious her disdain (which is shared by many of you) of people who work hard and want to be left alone.

As Sec state didnt have the first clue about securing data.

Never mind the influence selling by her husband

Closest similarity to a political family in recent history that has the same hubris is the Ceausescu crew.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New stupid?
Hillary Clinton probably has thirty or forty IQ points on you, I think.
New read the emails of her friends and collegues, they thought she was dumb as a stump
It may have been advancing age, that does happen you know
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New So?
By the evidence of most your posts here—not all, because you contrive to express yourself rationally at long intervals—you are dumber than the average stump.
New That's no excuse.
I, too, have come to really despise the Clintons for what they did to my Democratic Party. That does not blind me to the heinousness of the Republican Party.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New So, both sides then? Kinda like Boxley? (sigh)
     It must be much, much easier to graduate from law school than I thought. - (mmoffitt) - (30)
         solicit, accept, or receive. Russians did the soliciting, Trump et al did not accept as there was - (boxley) - (24)
             Please reread the concisely written ^above^ re the Operator, "OR"; it takes only ONE of three. HTH -NT - (Ashton) - (3)
                 it takes only ONE of three and i did in fact show that he did not match any one of them - (boxley) - (2)
                     We shall see, shalln't we? - (Another Scott) - (1)
                         you are right all of the evidence or lack thereof is not available, but as far as obstruction goes.. - (boxley)
             FFS, box. - (mmoffitt) - (11)
                 Re: FFS, box. Jr isn't the president - (boxley) - (10)
                     You persist in Not Noticing: The Two were jointly in violation; Jr's dossier is beside the *Point - (Ashton) - (1)
                         Don't quit yet day job, kitties need you more than the courts do -NT - (boxley)
                     Jesus Christ on a pogo stick! You're not one of those are you? - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                         Do you understand the legal term hearsay? -NT - (boxley) - (6)
                             "Russia, if you're listening I hope you can find ..." - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                 You lose box - (crazy) - (4)
                                     No. Problem with your solution but nothing so far will do. that -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                                         You got a hormone imbalance? - (drook) - (2)
                                             Ouch. - (Another Scott)
                                             Crap Android phone want my mickeysoft back -NT - (boxley)
             You may also like ... - (mmoffitt)
             Need to understand this about William B - (rcareaga) - (6)
                 "Trump cannot have prevailed in 2016 by illegitimate means" you are wrong there - (boxley) - (3)
                     stupid? - (rcareaga) - (2)
                         read the emails of her friends and collegues, they thought she was dumb as a stump - (boxley) - (1)
                             So? - (rcareaga)
                 That's no excuse. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                     So, both sides then? Kinda like Boxley? (sigh) -NT - (Another Scott)
         recent ussc decision relies in part - (boxley) - (4)
             Like I said - (crazy) - (2)
                 Isn't it great when the best thing you can say about the president is ... - (drook) - (1)
                     Re: Isn't it great when the best thing you can say about the presidents since Carter fify -NT - (boxley)
             And that "more" would be the promise of a thing of value to be delivered. HTH. - (mmoffitt)

Thank God it's Friday!
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