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New I wonder why the GOP is trying to keep people from voting.
Maybe they know that if people are not thrown off the voting rolls, or prevented from registering by arbitrary voter ID rules, etc., etc., then they won't win?

Maybe Donnie won because the table was tilted by representatives of your beloved heartland?

SCOTUSBlog:

The Supreme Court today rejected a challenge to one of the practices used by Ohio to remove voters from the state’s voter rolls. By a vote of 5-4, the justices agreed that the practice under question – which cancels the registration of voters who do not go to the polls and who then fail to respond to a notice – does not violate federal laws governing voter registration. The decision could mean that more states will adopt similar laws to trim their voter rolls, particularly when (as the majority observed today) roughly one in eight voter registrations is “either invalid or significantly inaccurate.” Justice Sonia Sotomayor criticized the ruling in her dissent today, predicting that it could have a disproportionate effect on the poor, the elderly and minorities.

The case arose when U.S. Navy veteran Larry Harmon went to his local polling place in Ohio to vote in 2015. Harmon learned that, although he had lived in the same place for more than 16 years, he had been removed from the voter rolls because he had not voted in 2009 and 2010 and then also had not responded – because he said he didn’t remember receiving it – to a notice that the state elections board had sent him in 2011 to confirm his eligibility.


They're throwing people off the rolls, requiring arbitrary IDs, trying to twist the census to not count immigrants, not supplying enough voting machines, cutting voting hours, restricting absentee voting, etc., etc., etc., because it is the only way they can maintain power.

Stop yelling at the Democratic Party over things that happened decades ago and do what you can to help now.

Support LWV and VoteRiders and the ACLU and NDRC and everyone else who is trying to fight Donnie's minions.

Cheers,
Scott.
New thats called use it or lose it
there needs to be a method to clean up voter rolls so the dead will quit voting and the abuse of absentee ballots. I am sure he was able to sign up and vote in the next election.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Do you lose your right to free speech if you don't write your governor?
It's hard to think of a more fundamental right than the right to vote.

It's a stupid way to "clean up" the voting rolls, and it's its [sigh] only purpose is to disenfranchise people.

If they want to clean the rolls, they can do it by ways other than sending people mail that can get lost or never read. (Checking death certificates, etc.).

In-person voter fraud happens vanishingly rarely in the USA.

Cheers,
Scott.
Expand Edited by Another Scott June 12, 2018, 07:47:42 PM EDT
New right to vote sure, but that ends on death or moving, voting is extremely local
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Does that happen?
Where's the evidence of large-scale in-person voter fraud? Unless the numbers are higher than the number of eligible people scrubbed for technicalities, it's swatting a fly with a sledgehammer.
--

Drew
New detroit, more votes counted than on the rolls
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New How many?
According to this there were somewhere over 652 "extra" votes and 264 "missing" votes in Wayne County, so the total discrepancy seems to be in the neighborhood of 400-1000 extra votes in a county of ~750k.

Trump won Michigan by 10.7k out of 4.5M.

Ballots could be overcounted if they jammed and the voter pulled it out and tried again and no poll worker noticed and adjusted the count. Which sounds like the kind of thing that would happen in a precinct with long lines because they weren't assigned enough voting machines.

I'm not seeing your clear story of voter fraud. Want to try again?
--

Drew
New how many peope in ohio were took off of the rolls that should not have been? Is there a hard number?
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New You can Google as well as me.
I'm sure. ;-)

TheAtlantic:

Here’s how the Ohio system works. If a voter misses a federal election, the voter is flagged as possibly having moved. The state then sends a postcard asking the voter to return it if he or she is still eligible at the old address. If the voter returns the card, that’s it. But if not, the name stays flagged—and if the voter then does not vote in either of the next two federal elections, the voter’s name is purged.

Not only common sense but statistical surveys show that most people who receive such governmental postcards don’t return them—either because they don’t understand the legalese they bear, or because they mean to and forget, or because they just lose the card. In his dissent, Breyer cited figures showing that, in 2012, Ohio sent roughly 1.5 million postcards—and got back only about 235,000 replies. Justice Breyer’s dissent notes that Ohio’s system in 2012 used the combined failure to vote and the failure to return a postcard to begin the “purge” process for more than 1 million voters. If not returning a postcard meant the voter has moved, this suggests that nearly 13 percent of Ohio’s population had moved in the previous two years. But, he noted, “the streets of Ohio’s cities are not filled with moving vans.” In fact, it seems likely that at most a third of that number had actually moved, he said.

[...]

After Breyer’s textual exegesis, it fell to Justice Sonia Sotomayor to point out that the decision will have predictable real-world consequences: “Congress enacted the NVRA against the backdrop of substantial efforts by states to disenfranchise low-income and minority voters, including programs that purged eligible voters from registration lists because they failed to vote in prior elections.” The majority opinion, she wrote, “entirely ignores the history of voter suppression against which the NVRA was enacted and upholds a program that appears to further the very disenfranchisement of minority and low-income voters that Congress set out to eradicate.”

The implication—which, given the state of American politics in 2018, is hardly outlandish—is that the Ohio system will hit these voters hardest because, well, that’s what it was designed to do. And the twin statutes at issue, Sotomayor noted, forbid “discriminatory” applications of their provisions.


Several are suggesting that Sotomayor is telling people how to get the Ohio rule struck down again.

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
New so a number of one, as cited by earlier post.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Eh?
CincinnatiEnquirer:

Depending on where you live, county election officials might diligently remove thousands of voter registrations each year, documented by detailed records. Or they might insist they haven't followed through with the state-ordered process in some years, or apologize for tossing those files years ago, according to an Enquirer / USA Today Network investigation, in which Ohio reporters contacted all 88 county board of elections.

While nearly every county was happy to discuss what local officials call the "voter purge" process, the records they provided were a morass of half-kept data and confusing spikes in removed voters. And the numbers they sent to the U.S. Election Assistance Commission weren't much better.

At best, these records reveal a lack of care by some election officials tracking voters taken off the rolls.

At worst, they point to a system of removing voters that's far from uniform – meaning where you live could determine when, or if, your voter registration is deleted. And that could affect whose votes count, and whose don’t, in a critical battleground state that may determine the next president.

Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted, a Republican, insists counties are removing voters from the rolls in a uniform manner across all 88 counties.

“Everyone is being removed by the same standard statewide," Husted said. "There is not a variance between county to county.”

But he doesn't have a number for how many people were removed either. Husted doesn’t know whether that figure has increased or decreased over the 20-plus years the state has removed voters this way. His office does compile how many warning notices are sent to people who might be removed: more than 4.6 million notice since 2011. Some of those people are taken off the rolls if they don’t respond to the notice or vote in the following four years.


They've sent out 4.6 million post cards to remove one guy? You believe that?

Let's see, 4.6E6 x $0.39 = $1,794,000 for post cards.

To remove one guy.

Sure.

Cheers,
Scott.
New get me a number of actual living voters that were denied voting rights
all the handwaving, statistics and probabilities is the same argument you use against voter fraud.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Read the links.
New Just like you demand for me to prove voter fraud by producing actual cases I am requesting the same
Courtesy. There according to your suppositions thousands of them. Produce the actual list.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New ...
I provided you many links. Including ones showing that in-person voter fraud is a negligible problem.

Saying that you're "sure [Harmon] was able to sign up and vote in the next election" doesn't change the fact that he was thrown off the rolls for no good reason (he wasn't dead and didn't move). It's an unsupported supposition on your part.

NPR:

One of the most notorious purges took place in Florida in 2000, when the state used a faulty list of felons to remove more than 1,000 legitimate voters from the rolls.


But that's OK with boxley, apparently.

Have a nice day.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Meh.
You should know better than this.

Snopes:

[...]

So the discrepancy, while newsworthy, had nothing to do with the number of votes tallied exceeding the number of registered voters (an impossibility in a fair election), but rather the number of voters recorded by poll workers exceeding the number of voters recorded by voting machines (a circumstance that suggested errors on the part of machines and/or human workers rather than fraud).

The documented problems with the voter count records hindered recount efforts:

Overall, state records show 10.6 percent of the precincts in the 22 counties that began the retabulation process couldn’t be recounted because of state law that bars recounts for unbalanced precincts or ones with broken seals.

The problems were the worst in Detroit, where discrepancies meant officials couldn’t recount votes in 392 precincts, or nearly 60 percent. And two-thirds of those precincts had too many votes.

“We’re assuming there were (human) errors, and we will have discussions with Detroit election officials and staff in addition to reviewing the ballots,” Thomas said.

The Detroit News was first to report that more than half of Detroit would be ineligible for the recount because of the irregularities. The results were based on county reports obtained by The News.


As of 15 December 2016, the Detroit Free Press reported that human error was clearly the primary issue:

[...]


FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New He does
--

Drew
New a circumstance that suggested errors on the part of machines and/or human workers rather than fraud
sure it is
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Glad you finally agree.
New But I am trying to help.
I'm trying to point out that when we came to the fork in the road in 1992 we took the wrong road and it led us to losing to Donald Trump. You know what my current nightmare scenario is? Kirsten Gillibrand is the Democratic nominee in 2020 and she's sure acting like she's running. If she does and wins the nomination, buckle up, it's going to be Trump for another term. At this point, I think Gavin Newsom could be the nominee if he decides to run. But if that happens, he'll play hell winning the general.

To be clear, I do not have any serious issues with either of them. I'm just trying to help by pointing out that neither of them are highly sellable in the flyover region. I'm not sure any woman could win any of the flyover states unless it was a woman like Anne Richards - and I don't see any of them around anymore. Again, I'm not saying that's right. I'm saying that's the way it is and people on the coasts had better start factoring in how to give the lesser Muricans a little hope or they'll do something stupid beyond measure again.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
     How the Democrats will lose again Part Deux. - (mmoffitt) - (50)
         There's no evidence that he could - (drook) - (48)
             Did he really? - (Another Scott) - (47)
                 Jesus Christ on a pogo stick. - (mmoffitt) - (46)
                     I'll just leave this here... - (Another Scott) - (44)
                         Just a couple things and a question. - (mmoffitt) - (43)
                             Re: Just a couple things and a question. - (Another Scott) - (42)
                                 I would have thought you were close enough to my age to remember Real Democrats. - (mmoffitt) - (41)
                                     Re: I would have thought you were close enough to my age to remember Real Democrats. - (Another Scott) - (40)
                                         Not hallucinating, maybe. But you might want to think about getting your eyes checked. ;0) - (mmoffitt) - (39)
                                             Agreed. In an ideal world, Comey wouldn't have mattered. But he did. - (Another Scott) - (36)
                                                 But she was blown out of the water in rural areas. - (mmoffitt) - (35)
                                                     (sigh) - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                         I heard her plenty. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                             There are plenty of industrial countries that don't have "single payer". - (Another Scott)
                                                             “a candidate horrible enough to lose to Donald Trump” - (rcareaga)
                                                     In that vein.. - (Ashton)
                                                     Piss gasoline on rural voters and set ’em on fire - (rcareaga) - (9)
                                                         The view from the Bay Area is a lot different than the view from the Mid West. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (8)
                                                             I’m right and you’re wrong. -NT - (rcareaga) - (7)
                                                                 rofl. :-) - (Another Scott)
                                                                 Just like 2016. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                                     Fuck the midwestern voters - (rcareaga) - (4)
                                                                         great idea for a movie there - (boxley)
                                                                         Resigned to never win the White House again are you? - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                             IOW, keep ignoring the people disenfranchised to chase the WWC?? -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                 Not at all. - (mmoffitt)
                                                     I wonder why the GOP is trying to keep people from voting. - (Another Scott) - (19)
                                                         thats called use it or lose it - (boxley) - (17)
                                                             Do you lose your right to free speech if you don't write your governor? - (Another Scott) - (16)
                                                                 right to vote sure, but that ends on death or moving, voting is extremely local -NT - (boxley) - (15)
                                                                     Does that happen? - (drook) - (14)
                                                                         detroit, more votes counted than on the rolls -NT - (boxley) - (13)
                                                                             How many? - (drook) - (8)
                                                                                 how many peope in ohio were took off of the rolls that should not have been? Is there a hard number? -NT - (boxley) - (7)
                                                                                     You can Google as well as me. - (Another Scott) - (6)
                                                                                         so a number of one, as cited by earlier post. -NT - (boxley) - (5)
                                                                                             Eh? - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                                                                                 get me a number of actual living voters that were denied voting rights - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                                                     Read the links. -NT - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                                                                                         Just like you demand for me to prove voter fraud by producing actual cases I am requesting the same - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                             ... - (Another Scott)
                                                                             Meh. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                                                 He does -NT - (drook)
                                                                                 a circumstance that suggested errors on the part of machines and/or human workers rather than fraud - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                     Glad you finally agree. -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                         But I am trying to help. - (mmoffitt)
                                             You didn't address the question in the linked article - (drook) - (1)
                                                 He disqualified his reasoning himself. - (mmoffitt)
                     Re: Jesus Christ on a pogo stick. - (drook)
         as long as we get over the retreads and get someone outside of the machine - (boxley)

The alien burst from Dan's stomach. Spaghetti sauce or blood spattered the wall. It was probably blood. Either way, it would stain.
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