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New Re: I would have thought you were close enough to my age to remember Real Democrats.
What cost Hillary the election was the massive turn Right the Democratic Party has been on since her husband was elected.


I guess I was just hallucinating when Obama was elected twice, huh.

;-p

Yes, it was mainly Comey. Putin and all the rest made it close enough for Comey to throw it to the GOP.

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Not hallucinating, maybe. But you might want to think about getting your eyes checked. ;0)
I mean, if you mistook Obama for a Genuine Democrat, well, you definitely need something checked. (Gitmo's still open, Romney's Healthcare plan taken national, assassinations [even Americans!] by drone, etc.)

In the final analysis, Comey shouldn't have mattered. I mean for heaven's sake, we're talking about Donald Trump. It should have never been close. And it wouldn't have been, if the New Democratic Party was the same (or even close to the same) as the old one.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Agreed. In an ideal world, Comey wouldn't have mattered. But he did.
You're still doing the "No True Scotsman" stuff.

She won the popular vote. She wasn't blown out of the water the way McGovern was, and that's the bottom line reason why your argument is so misguided.

Neither Zombie Eugene McCarthy nor Zombie Adlai Stevenson nor Zombie Bobbie Kennedy were the candidates.

A Democrat is someone who is willing to put a (D) behind their name and support the party platform and caucus with them. That is all. There is no universal, unchanging, genetic set of policy positions for Democrats.

Was Jefferson a Democrat? What about Jackson? Should the Democratic Party still support slavery and Manifest Destiny and all the rest?

While you're continuing to blame Clinton(s) for so much, Trump and his minions are trying to actually destroy the things that you hold dear.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New But she was blown out of the water in rural areas.
And like it or not, rural voters still matter when it comes to electing a President. To be sure, well educated folks will always vote for Democrats. But they're a minority. You can't get the reachable lesser educated back by continuously courting Wall Street and the educated class to the exclusion of them. She obviously knows who they are but didn't even attempt to reach them. In fact, she did everything should could to further alienate them.

I'll give you that Comey and Vlad were decisive if and only if you give me that she was such a deplorable candidate that she created the environment in which Comey and Vlad could be decisive. Deal?

I don't think either of us wants to see the POTUS re-elected. But I'm telling you, if we Democrats nominate yet another tool of the monied class, I wouldn't take any bets against it.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New (sigh)
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

Too many people were interested in yelling about e-mail servers than paying attention to the substance of what she was saying.

Cheers,
Scott.
New I heard her plenty.
Bernie saying we shouldn't be alone in the industrialized world, that we should have a single payer, universal health care system was "pie in the sky." Tuition free college? More pie in the sky (despite the fact that I *actually had that* in the 1970's - note that was pre-Clinton revolution).

This is truly baffling to me. I seriously don't see what's so hard about admitting that a candidate horrible enough to lose to Donald Trump was a horrible candidate? I really don't understand that. What worries me is that if enough Democrats actually believe she would have won if not for Comey and Vlad they'll look to nominate another just like her. If that happens, Trump will win re-election.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New There are plenty of industrial countries that don't have "single payer".
Universal coverage, even "free healthcare" doesn't automatically mean single payer. Take Switzerland, for example.

Bernie (and you) getting stuck on the purity of your jargon causes you to miss real-world constraints.

Similarly with "free college". Martin works for one of the California public college systems:

229
🌷 Martin says:
February 10, 2016 at 5:16 pm
Free college doesn’t give any relief to those who already have large education debts in a repayment status.


That’s a trivial problem. The non-trivial problem is that you have an economics reality that needs to be dealt with which is that the only real mechanism we as a society have for balancing supply and demand is cost. Once you eliminate that mechanism, you need to invent a new mechanism. The Germans have a national university entrance qualification. So do the Chinese. Let’s just substitute the SAT in for that test, since it’s the likely substitute for such a test.

Guess what – the SAT is far more biased against low-income people than the financial aid system is in this country. All you’ve done is taken issues of inequity out of the college loan system and substituted every issue of inequity in the K-12 system, from how tax dollars are distributed to issues like school lunch programs and crime. Right now cost serves as something of an imperfect moderating function for the higher education system, but it’s a better system than structural problems inherent in how we allocate tax dollars for social programs. Free college will take those structural problems and magnify them even more. You’ll take a system where it’s challenging for a kid from inner city Detroit to get admitted to a top university and make it a near impossibility.

You could probably triple the size of the higher education system, but you’ll still need filtering mechanisms. Can every kid getting free tuition study engineering at MIT? Of course not. Can every kid study engineering? Still no. That SAT will also govern what you can study, which the current system only affects at the edges. But China’s system does precisely this – you got this score, you get to study X at universities Y or Z. Guess what – as soon as Chinese households get some money, one of the first things they do is export their kid to the US where students have far more say in where and what they study. Free college would destroy that system in the US, and substitute something a lot more like China’s system, and well-off US families will export their kids to the UK or some other country.

And there is ZERO reason for free tuition. Education is an appreciating asset. It is one of a very few things that are worth borrowing money for – a house and health care being the other two. And that’s pretty much the whole list. Without a college degree you are worth, say $30K per year to the labor market. With a college degree you are worth say $45K. For $15K per year in higher earnings, you can easily afford to borrow $100K. It’s a fantastic return on investment – better than almost anyone would get from any other investment.

One big problem behind the exploding college costs argument is that consumers aren’t being responsible. Borrowing $100K without picking up any marketable skills is sending a lot of students back to minimum wage jobs. I get that you really want to study classics, and don’t want to learn programming, but programming pays off the loan. Fuck, my first programming job 25 years ago was on a project in classics because it was far easier for them to find a programmer that bothered to study classics than to find a classicist that bothered to study programming. Much of it ties back to college loans not discriminating based on what students study – so you have student studying subjects far in excess of what society’s needs are with loans not helping to be a regulating function, and that also drives university decisions to expand programs that are cheap to offer over those that are expensive, but better serve students. If student loans could be higher for students studying in-demand subjects, that would shift everyone toward better outcomes.

Free tuition takes everything that is broken in our educational attainment system and makes it worse. Better would be to start with a few sensible things – how about child care and protections for workers who start families so that women get far better opportunities to work off their college loans? That would help everyone. If you want to let students study whatever, then a national program that takes some percentage of your gross income over 20 years and returns that money to the institutions where you studied (prorated, etc.) That gives universities big incentives to expand programs that lead to better paying jobs, improve skills, and improve placement. It’s not free, but it’s deferred like a loan, guaranteed, and provides positive rather than negative incentives.


I don't agree with everything he says (my dad, too, spent very little for his college education, and got his masters through his company going to school at night). But he's right that there are huge implications in taking financial aid out of the picture by making college "free".

Back in the 1970s (and before), states paid a huge portion of the education spending for things like college. Now, they hardly pay anything in many cases - take Virginia for example.

Clinton's plan ("debt-free college") made sense.

She lead the race the whole time, until Comey stuck his big fat head in it.

FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New “a candidate horrible enough to lose to Donald Trump”
Yeah, by three million more votes. It wasn’t a candidate problem, it was a structural problem. Here’s hoping that two years from now the Democrats nominate Johnny Unbeatable!

cordially,
New In that vein..
When I first heard of her use of (and assignment-as-sobriquet!) deplorable(s) ... never mind the noun-eation of another-fucking-adjective/adverb ...
My mind began adding-visuals-to n-subjects a'hearin: This Bitch be talkin' 'bout me-me-me!

And no.. I didn't grok to fullness that this GAFFE-alone, would ensure! the election of so-obvious a deranged, historically nasty, odious perpetually-bankrupt hooligan {sigh}
(What I did, was: expect that this lone idiotic name-calling would Lose her the "election".) Did so while buffering-out what the merely logical effect was: [The Orange Mofo prolly Will win.]
Bad. moi :-/



Speaking of synchronicity/again:
Just this a.m. glanced at a yellowed paperback by Philip K. Dick, Radio Free Albemuth. Was gonna get around-tuit anon, (had no hearsay re this title) then read the blurb:
Was published posthumously by the heirs, back-cover goes on to say..

"Discovered by his papers after his death, RADIO FREE ALBEMUTH (© 1985) is his last, his wildest, his most paranoid, his most prophetic, and some say his greatest work."


Plus one part of Frontispiece/intro:

FERRIS FREEMONT:
Nixon/McCarthy-like weirdo with an unspeakable secret, President of a nightmarishly normal alternate-history America


I. Mean. "prescience" may be over-used ..just as it becomes ubiquitous.
Our future is clear, is it not?
Mindless destruction / senseless violence? in whatever order or likely all-intermixed.
Muricans have earned nothing better less.
New Piss gasoline on rural voters and set ’em on fire
You think Sanders could have reached those knuckle-dragging inbred fuckwits in any significant numbers? After Russian and Republican ratfucking had got through with him? Mein Gott, mmoffitt, you are deluded.

less cordially,
Expand Edited by rcareaga June 11, 2018, 09:40:43 PM EDT
New The view from the Bay Area is a lot different than the view from the Mid West.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New I’m right and you’re wrong.
New rofl. :-)
New Just like 2016.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Fuck the midwestern voters
They’re lost. Irredeemable. Economic populism à la the Sage of Burlington ain’t gonna trump “fuck the niggers and meskins, and hands off my AK-47.” These knuckle-dragging fuckwits are figuratively part of the landscape now, and we need to work around them until they become literally part of the landscape. And to that end, the Purity Ponies ain’t helping.

cordially,
Expand Edited by rcareaga June 12, 2018, 05:49:20 PM EDT
New great idea for a movie there
Rand gets on a small jet provided by Soros to go to a meeting in new york to discuss disenfranchising the midwest. A roiling thunderstorm forces the jet down down in southern Indiana. The locals who live there surround the plane and when they are discussing whether to lynch him or sodomize him and then lynch him he is rescued by a black gay redneck in a ford 150. Using heroics and battling small town whitebred shitheels determined to have their way they arrive in Chicago when the f150 is shot out from under them. Using public transportation to go thru the southside of Chicago he makes it to the airport. After thanking his rescuer Rand boards a jet to fly back to oakland and swears to never travel again. then the clinton foundation calls.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Resigned to never win the White House again are you?
We tried it your way in 2016. Your way doesn't work. If you want to have another President elected in 2020 who also did not win the popular vote, keep on keepin' on.

Racism ain't just a Southern/Mid Western thing, ya know? Ever heard of this popular guy in Arizona with a last name of Arpaio? As for knuckle-draggers, how about Rohrabacher? Do you know him? Devin Nunes? Kevin McCarthy? Darrell Issa? And let's not ever forget which state gave us his holiness Saint Ronald Rayguns.

I can't say I disagree with the assertion that about half of the US populace (at least half of those who vote in our elections) are irredeemable. But where you err bigly is in the assumption that we don't need the assistance of the handful of semi-reasonable people in the deplorable states to win elections. You have to at least give those people some measure of hope. Campaigning on telling them that they'll never have it as well as their parents or grandparents, that they are all deplorable and irredeemable, or just never coming to talk to them at all (a.k.a. Wisconsin) is not a winning strategy. At least that much should have been gleaned from 2016.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New IOW, keep ignoring the people disenfranchised to chase the WWC??
New Not at all.
But you cannot completely ignore the concerns of the WWC and expect to win the Electoral College as this table indicates.

Sadly, 2016 suggests that when it comes to courting White voters, appealing to their rampant sexism and racism is highly effective. I'm not for a single nanosecond suggesting we do that. But we can support Progressive causes that would appeal to them. Here's a fer instance. You claim "affordable college" is superior to "free tuition" because there are a lot of people with student debt. How about just erasing it for all the people that attended State Colleges and Universities? If you owe a bunch of money to a private college (the Ivys, Vandy, etc.) we use Hillary's plan. If you owe UCLA, IU, Purdue, etc. you owe nothing because just as we did with the banks, we'll print the money to pay the universities off. If you were unfortunate enough to go to DeVry, UoP, Grand Canyon or any of the other diploma mills and you owe them, you're debt free and they can close (they'll get paid back what their "degrees" were worth, IOW). You say all that during the campaign and it will fall upon receptive ears in the MidWest (and the coasts for that matter). Even if you can't pull all of it off, at least potential WWC voters will know you are trying to help them. Why campaign on "It's all pie in the sky (even though your parents had it). I'm going to take your mining jobs away. If you want Universal Health Coverage, you can get it but not until you're 65."?
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New I wonder why the GOP is trying to keep people from voting.
Maybe they know that if people are not thrown off the voting rolls, or prevented from registering by arbitrary voter ID rules, etc., etc., then they won't win?

Maybe Donnie won because the table was tilted by representatives of your beloved heartland?

SCOTUSBlog:

The Supreme Court today rejected a challenge to one of the practices used by Ohio to remove voters from the state’s voter rolls. By a vote of 5-4, the justices agreed that the practice under question – which cancels the registration of voters who do not go to the polls and who then fail to respond to a notice – does not violate federal laws governing voter registration. The decision could mean that more states will adopt similar laws to trim their voter rolls, particularly when (as the majority observed today) roughly one in eight voter registrations is “either invalid or significantly inaccurate.” Justice Sonia Sotomayor criticized the ruling in her dissent today, predicting that it could have a disproportionate effect on the poor, the elderly and minorities.

The case arose when U.S. Navy veteran Larry Harmon went to his local polling place in Ohio to vote in 2015. Harmon learned that, although he had lived in the same place for more than 16 years, he had been removed from the voter rolls because he had not voted in 2009 and 2010 and then also had not responded – because he said he didn’t remember receiving it – to a notice that the state elections board had sent him in 2011 to confirm his eligibility.


They're throwing people off the rolls, requiring arbitrary IDs, trying to twist the census to not count immigrants, not supplying enough voting machines, cutting voting hours, restricting absentee voting, etc., etc., etc., because it is the only way they can maintain power.

Stop yelling at the Democratic Party over things that happened decades ago and do what you can to help now.

Support LWV and VoteRiders and the ACLU and NDRC and everyone else who is trying to fight Donnie's minions.

Cheers,
Scott.
New thats called use it or lose it
there needs to be a method to clean up voter rolls so the dead will quit voting and the abuse of absentee ballots. I am sure he was able to sign up and vote in the next election.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Do you lose your right to free speech if you don't write your governor?
It's hard to think of a more fundamental right than the right to vote.

It's a stupid way to "clean up" the voting rolls, and it's its [sigh] only purpose is to disenfranchise people.

If they want to clean the rolls, they can do it by ways other than sending people mail that can get lost or never read. (Checking death certificates, etc.).

In-person voter fraud happens vanishingly rarely in the USA.

Cheers,
Scott.
Expand Edited by Another Scott June 12, 2018, 07:47:42 PM EDT
New right to vote sure, but that ends on death or moving, voting is extremely local
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Does that happen?
Where's the evidence of large-scale in-person voter fraud? Unless the numbers are higher than the number of eligible people scrubbed for technicalities, it's swatting a fly with a sledgehammer.
--

Drew
New detroit, more votes counted than on the rolls
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New How many?
According to this there were somewhere over 652 "extra" votes and 264 "missing" votes in Wayne County, so the total discrepancy seems to be in the neighborhood of 400-1000 extra votes in a county of ~750k.

Trump won Michigan by 10.7k out of 4.5M.

Ballots could be overcounted if they jammed and the voter pulled it out and tried again and no poll worker noticed and adjusted the count. Which sounds like the kind of thing that would happen in a precinct with long lines because they weren't assigned enough voting machines.

I'm not seeing your clear story of voter fraud. Want to try again?
--

Drew
New how many peope in ohio were took off of the rolls that should not have been? Is there a hard number?
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New You can Google as well as me.
I'm sure. ;-)

TheAtlantic:

Here’s how the Ohio system works. If a voter misses a federal election, the voter is flagged as possibly having moved. The state then sends a postcard asking the voter to return it if he or she is still eligible at the old address. If the voter returns the card, that’s it. But if not, the name stays flagged—and if the voter then does not vote in either of the next two federal elections, the voter’s name is purged.

Not only common sense but statistical surveys show that most people who receive such governmental postcards don’t return them—either because they don’t understand the legalese they bear, or because they mean to and forget, or because they just lose the card. In his dissent, Breyer cited figures showing that, in 2012, Ohio sent roughly 1.5 million postcards—and got back only about 235,000 replies. Justice Breyer’s dissent notes that Ohio’s system in 2012 used the combined failure to vote and the failure to return a postcard to begin the “purge” process for more than 1 million voters. If not returning a postcard meant the voter has moved, this suggests that nearly 13 percent of Ohio’s population had moved in the previous two years. But, he noted, “the streets of Ohio’s cities are not filled with moving vans.” In fact, it seems likely that at most a third of that number had actually moved, he said.

[...]

After Breyer’s textual exegesis, it fell to Justice Sonia Sotomayor to point out that the decision will have predictable real-world consequences: “Congress enacted the NVRA against the backdrop of substantial efforts by states to disenfranchise low-income and minority voters, including programs that purged eligible voters from registration lists because they failed to vote in prior elections.” The majority opinion, she wrote, “entirely ignores the history of voter suppression against which the NVRA was enacted and upholds a program that appears to further the very disenfranchisement of minority and low-income voters that Congress set out to eradicate.”

The implication—which, given the state of American politics in 2018, is hardly outlandish—is that the Ohio system will hit these voters hardest because, well, that’s what it was designed to do. And the twin statutes at issue, Sotomayor noted, forbid “discriminatory” applications of their provisions.


Several are suggesting that Sotomayor is telling people how to get the Ohio rule struck down again.

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
New so a number of one, as cited by earlier post.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Eh?
CincinnatiEnquirer:

Depending on where you live, county election officials might diligently remove thousands of voter registrations each year, documented by detailed records. Or they might insist they haven't followed through with the state-ordered process in some years, or apologize for tossing those files years ago, according to an Enquirer / USA Today Network investigation, in which Ohio reporters contacted all 88 county board of elections.

While nearly every county was happy to discuss what local officials call the "voter purge" process, the records they provided were a morass of half-kept data and confusing spikes in removed voters. And the numbers they sent to the U.S. Election Assistance Commission weren't much better.

At best, these records reveal a lack of care by some election officials tracking voters taken off the rolls.

At worst, they point to a system of removing voters that's far from uniform – meaning where you live could determine when, or if, your voter registration is deleted. And that could affect whose votes count, and whose don’t, in a critical battleground state that may determine the next president.

Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted, a Republican, insists counties are removing voters from the rolls in a uniform manner across all 88 counties.

“Everyone is being removed by the same standard statewide," Husted said. "There is not a variance between county to county.”

But he doesn't have a number for how many people were removed either. Husted doesn’t know whether that figure has increased or decreased over the 20-plus years the state has removed voters this way. His office does compile how many warning notices are sent to people who might be removed: more than 4.6 million notice since 2011. Some of those people are taken off the rolls if they don’t respond to the notice or vote in the following four years.


They've sent out 4.6 million post cards to remove one guy? You believe that?

Let's see, 4.6E6 x $0.39 = $1,794,000 for post cards.

To remove one guy.

Sure.

Cheers,
Scott.
New get me a number of actual living voters that were denied voting rights
all the handwaving, statistics and probabilities is the same argument you use against voter fraud.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Read the links.
New Just like you demand for me to prove voter fraud by producing actual cases I am requesting the same
Courtesy. There according to your suppositions thousands of them. Produce the actual list.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New ...
I provided you many links. Including ones showing that in-person voter fraud is a negligible problem.

Saying that you're "sure [Harmon] was able to sign up and vote in the next election" doesn't change the fact that he was thrown off the rolls for no good reason (he wasn't dead and didn't move). It's an unsupported supposition on your part.

NPR:

One of the most notorious purges took place in Florida in 2000, when the state used a faulty list of felons to remove more than 1,000 legitimate voters from the rolls.


But that's OK with boxley, apparently.

Have a nice day.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Meh.
You should know better than this.

Snopes:

[...]

So the discrepancy, while newsworthy, had nothing to do with the number of votes tallied exceeding the number of registered voters (an impossibility in a fair election), but rather the number of voters recorded by poll workers exceeding the number of voters recorded by voting machines (a circumstance that suggested errors on the part of machines and/or human workers rather than fraud).

The documented problems with the voter count records hindered recount efforts:

Overall, state records show 10.6 percent of the precincts in the 22 counties that began the retabulation process couldn’t be recounted because of state law that bars recounts for unbalanced precincts or ones with broken seals.

The problems were the worst in Detroit, where discrepancies meant officials couldn’t recount votes in 392 precincts, or nearly 60 percent. And two-thirds of those precincts had too many votes.

“We’re assuming there were (human) errors, and we will have discussions with Detroit election officials and staff in addition to reviewing the ballots,” Thomas said.

The Detroit News was first to report that more than half of Detroit would be ineligible for the recount because of the irregularities. The results were based on county reports obtained by The News.


As of 15 December 2016, the Detroit Free Press reported that human error was clearly the primary issue:

[...]


FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New He does
--

Drew
New a circumstance that suggested errors on the part of machines and/or human workers rather than fraud
sure it is
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Glad you finally agree.
New But I am trying to help.
I'm trying to point out that when we came to the fork in the road in 1992 we took the wrong road and it led us to losing to Donald Trump. You know what my current nightmare scenario is? Kirsten Gillibrand is the Democratic nominee in 2020 and she's sure acting like she's running. If she does and wins the nomination, buckle up, it's going to be Trump for another term. At this point, I think Gavin Newsom could be the nominee if he decides to run. But if that happens, he'll play hell winning the general.

To be clear, I do not have any serious issues with either of them. I'm just trying to help by pointing out that neither of them are highly sellable in the flyover region. I'm not sure any woman could win any of the flyover states unless it was a woman like Anne Richards - and I don't see any of them around anymore. Again, I'm not saying that's right. I'm saying that's the way it is and people on the coasts had better start factoring in how to give the lesser Muricans a little hope or they'll do something stupid beyond measure again.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New You didn't address the question in the linked article
If you disagree that Comey was decisive, you need to account for two things. First, if the problem was something intrinsic to Clinton or her campaign, why was she so far ahead of Trump for the entire race? Second, if Comey wasn’t at fault, what plausibly accounts for Clinton’s huge and sudden change in fortune starting precisely on October 28?
--

Drew
New He disqualified his reasoning himself.
Yeah, the polls I'm citing to make my point turned out to be wrong in the end, but they are valid for the point I'm trying to make. GMAFB.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
     How the Democrats will lose again Part Deux. - (mmoffitt) - (50)
         There's no evidence that he could - (drook) - (48)
             Did he really? - (Another Scott) - (47)
                 Jesus Christ on a pogo stick. - (mmoffitt) - (46)
                     I'll just leave this here... - (Another Scott) - (44)
                         Just a couple things and a question. - (mmoffitt) - (43)
                             Re: Just a couple things and a question. - (Another Scott) - (42)
                                 I would have thought you were close enough to my age to remember Real Democrats. - (mmoffitt) - (41)
                                     Re: I would have thought you were close enough to my age to remember Real Democrats. - (Another Scott) - (40)
                                         Not hallucinating, maybe. But you might want to think about getting your eyes checked. ;0) - (mmoffitt) - (39)
                                             Agreed. In an ideal world, Comey wouldn't have mattered. But he did. - (Another Scott) - (36)
                                                 But she was blown out of the water in rural areas. - (mmoffitt) - (35)
                                                     (sigh) - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                         I heard her plenty. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                             There are plenty of industrial countries that don't have "single payer". - (Another Scott)
                                                             “a candidate horrible enough to lose to Donald Trump” - (rcareaga)
                                                     In that vein.. - (Ashton)
                                                     Piss gasoline on rural voters and set ’em on fire - (rcareaga) - (9)
                                                         The view from the Bay Area is a lot different than the view from the Mid West. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (8)
                                                             I’m right and you’re wrong. -NT - (rcareaga) - (7)
                                                                 rofl. :-) - (Another Scott)
                                                                 Just like 2016. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                                     Fuck the midwestern voters - (rcareaga) - (4)
                                                                         great idea for a movie there - (boxley)
                                                                         Resigned to never win the White House again are you? - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                                             IOW, keep ignoring the people disenfranchised to chase the WWC?? -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                                                 Not at all. - (mmoffitt)
                                                     I wonder why the GOP is trying to keep people from voting. - (Another Scott) - (19)
                                                         thats called use it or lose it - (boxley) - (17)
                                                             Do you lose your right to free speech if you don't write your governor? - (Another Scott) - (16)
                                                                 right to vote sure, but that ends on death or moving, voting is extremely local -NT - (boxley) - (15)
                                                                     Does that happen? - (drook) - (14)
                                                                         detroit, more votes counted than on the rolls -NT - (boxley) - (13)
                                                                             How many? - (drook) - (8)
                                                                                 how many peope in ohio were took off of the rolls that should not have been? Is there a hard number? -NT - (boxley) - (7)
                                                                                     You can Google as well as me. - (Another Scott) - (6)
                                                                                         so a number of one, as cited by earlier post. -NT - (boxley) - (5)
                                                                                             Eh? - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                                                                                 get me a number of actual living voters that were denied voting rights - (boxley) - (3)
                                                                                                     Read the links. -NT - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                                                                                         Just like you demand for me to prove voter fraud by producing actual cases I am requesting the same - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                             ... - (Another Scott)
                                                                             Meh. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                                                 He does -NT - (drook)
                                                                                 a circumstance that suggested errors on the part of machines and/or human workers rather than fraud - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                     Glad you finally agree. -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                         But I am trying to help. - (mmoffitt)
                                             You didn't address the question in the linked article - (drook) - (1)
                                                 He disqualified his reasoning himself. - (mmoffitt)
                     Re: Jesus Christ on a pogo stick. - (drook)
         as long as we get over the retreads and get someone outside of the machine - (boxley)

Your Freak God[tm] was HERE!
207 ms