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New As tis the Season of Mammon-run-amok.. I be looking for a New automotive device.
(For reasons of length and intricacy, the causality of this otherwise unSmart (-vs- a canny not too old Used..) idea must be redacted lest the unwashed World get more info than is ever wise.)
Anyway, it Has-to-be 'New'--oh the pain of such-a-Deal--as I ponder what cat-sustaining good things can't be funded, as in a saner world, not balanced on the point of a cone. On a shake-table.

Prolly in range of 24-27K ∑ of Banana Republic Fake-$$. With all options open, have just begun the triage. Pondering first couple devices at the start:
Kia Niro==plug-in hybrid (new model IIRC.) Check out cheapest Prius/now a bit less stodgy/cheezy in its outer apparel and clearly Experienced in whatever hybrid-woes over the years. My bias is ~ that plug-in hybrid is the sanest first thought, given the Brave-cowardsly-world aborning. Gas-only would open up myriad good-handling sexy creations of course: USED, but can't go there.

Other than these prelims ... any brilliant suggestions solicited.

Friend has CU subsc. (Consumer Union for you other anti-consumers) and TTAC of course for angles which CU wouldn't dare go into unless 1000 people had same problems (The Truth About Cars: competent gear-heads/minimal idiot drop-ins. And still There!)

It's kinda-Fun to lower the consciousness in such a proxy-deal; just go-all-OOhh!! Buy That one. Now. cha. cha.
(Alas, the fate of the Bitchin Acura Plutocrat/a real Grand Turismo is ..iffy, as mere Big-maintenance (like the $800 +/- merely to change a fucking kevlar timing belt, ∆ master cyl etc.) with only 130K miles and good for (several at 300K miles on original main stuff) ... dunno, may have to flog it to the canny troops at Acura Vigor & Legend Club, who will likely do the heavy--engine--lifting theyselves. {{Sob}}

tl;dr: so then, Ho.. Ho.. HHho!!😻
New Cars are a big pain in the butt.
Sorry you're having to look now.

We just spent $1700 on new front hubs and wheel bearings on J's 2000 Corolla. :-/ It needs struts all around too (probably another $2k). Labor is expensive, so just about any significant car repair gets very spendy quick. :-( I keep hoping that a decent electric or long-range plug-in hybrid will be available before we finally replace it (it has less than 90,000 so we could easily keep it another 10 years even though I hate it...)

I had to make a couple of trips in the last month. I rented a Kia Soul (black on black on black in Gainesville, Florida) and a Nissan Sentra (red over black in Cincinnati). I was impressed with the Kia, except I could see the gas gauge drop in real time even driving very gently. I was surprised how poorly it coasted - my Jetta TDI coasts really easily compared to that thing. Dunno if it's something in particular about that engine/transmission combination, or I've just become spoiled by my TDI (no throttle/choke losses).

The Sentra had really comfortable seats. I was impressed by that. And it did great in the snow in Cincinnati - people were driving at about 35 MPH on the highway, and I could drive past them at 60 with no trouble at all.

But the suspension was weird. It pogoed up and down over expansion bumps on the highway. It reminded me of the rocking horse on springs that we had as a kid... :-/ . Dunno if it was that particular car, but it was off-putting.

The plugin hybrid Niro sounds like it is well worth considering based on the TTAC story in the last few days. But lots and lots of things don't come through in the reviews. E.g. J hates my Jetta because she can't get comfortable in the seats. :-(

I would try driving everything in your price range. Just about anyone can make a really good car these days - it's not rocket surgery. ;-) And you might get a pleasant surprise and find something you really like for less than you fear you'll have to spend.

Good luck!! Let us know what you decide.

Cheers,
Scott.
New i have 29k miles on the 2017 focus thus far. Am wellpleased with the handling and the tranny
if i had to do it over i would get the 2.3 motor instead of the 2.0 for the extra geegees.
Dunno if other hybrids have the problem but we have a lot of priusi priuses? where I work that the guys tell me they have to be a daily driver. If you park it and only drive intermittently they behave poorly and large amounts of cash need to be kept nearby for maintenance.

good luck and test drive until you get one that feels good that you can afford.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Drove one briefly.
Liked It ..but the Damocles sword hanging over *cough* the "design-team* of the Fiasco tranny and certain years? models? of Focus with them has been ... well, you know.

But it seems that the tandem 6-speed via time-sharing two-3-speed assemblies has been solved by others; was initially off-put that the Niro (as is harvesting mainly Kudos in the chattering fan-mags) is another ditto!. Then too, with the 8+% CA tax AND the Car-cartels' near a $Grand! for BS-"transportation" fee--both of which cannot be chiseled down--Niro may elude $Max in this arrangement.

Ah well, to modify AScott's quip: CARZ *ARE* a Byotch, esp. all the try-to-hide dealer discounts you have to aim to recover in the spread-sheet Warz. Already moi Hates It. :-/

It's a crap-shoot thus far. Pity that the cheapest hybrid isn't quite cheap-enough. And Gas still sucks. And (the pitifully few on dis-US shores) diesels still cost Lots etc. cha. cha.

But yup, getting out of the Fiasco into that Focus (a loaner): I saw nothing to byotch about; didn't look up prices.. yet.
I haven't run into the scuttlebutt of (ugly) Priuses not liking to sit around; seems an odd malady (thinking about how the system works.) I mean.. Li-Ion batteries don't self-discharge excessively as do Li-hydrides (which Prius I guess still put in the cheapest version;) checking that one out just to cover all bases. Can you elaborate on "what happens" when an idle one of these wants next to be fired up? Sounds better than the NYT Crosswords puzzle, eh?

Also, is there any reason in your collected lore to generalize the Prius case to other hybrids? (I haven't heard such a thing, but I be iggerant of the matter thus far; will Google.)

Thanx for the Focus==OK datum :-)
New What's your time frame?
If immediate, but want more, buy a cheap used simply to give yourself time to make the decision. I picked up a 99 Accord with 103k. Gets about 30 mpg. Got it for $3k. Love it.
New My tack also, but
doesn't fit the situation..
New It's not exactly clear, but I think (in the USA) only the Prius Prime has Li-Ion batteries.
The Prius Prime is the plug-in hybrid (that I think they have stopped making as a result of slow sales).

The rest of the US Priuses used NiMH batteries. But that may have changed in the last year or so - dunno.

The Kia Niro hybrid uses Li-Ion batteries (1.56 kWh).

Cheers,
Scott.
New Addendum re hybrid battery systems
Have done some sleuthing, understand the Prius's (maybe all..?) dance 'twixt the 12V battery (an hugely overpriced item ~$250 in Prius) and the HV battery pack. In stasis (however long) the nest of cells in HV batt are completely disconnected from the world; self-discharge is minuscule--but not zero
(thus as with all of the Li-Ion chemistry, super-long stasis Can do bad things if V drops below (x volts for Li_Ion.)
But that takes many months (and with cars which autostart and recharge both batteries, one probably need not worry about the many-months danger date, whatever exactly that calculates out to be, (via discharge rate -vs- months to reach the MIN allowable voltage-per-cell.).

Details == tmi, but the gist is: if 12V batt is near-dead then nothing works, some settings are lost, like clock etc. IF the 12V battery is too low, then the gadget cannot heal-thyself via running engine: all of which requires that main battery pack is er, viable (so it can also replenish 12V batt. {sheesh} ... its another bug-hunt aka N! sequences.

Clue then: for "too-long" disuse periods, easiest SYA is to have a *good* quality smart charger on the 12V battery, all along.
Like: my Duracell-vi-Xantrex 15 amp charger, like a lunchbox with big handle (and it's light.)
Has a cpu, digital display (checked OK via Real test eq.) and can resuscitate sometimes even badly abused Pb-acid batteries.
No hint! of a Model#, just a phone $ on Manual and www.xantrex.co_/support. Stole mine for $30 but Lists (Listed..?) for 70ish IIRC.
Chump change for maintaining exotica like these cars. This stuff is in my bailiwick and.. this is the sanest, scientifically-smart charger I've seen yet (except in labs.)

tl;dr With some basic Ohms Law and lore on battery chemistries: one Can setup an automated SYA for hybrid battery systems being stored:
is my current take-away, subject to correction (especially re specific Car Mfg. design weirdness.)



Jeez.. this shit used to be Fun, but putting "some complexity" out there to the many sci-illiterates of the dis-US ... sounds a lot like folly to moi.
Battery warranty likely covers the idiocy-caused damages; after that though: ya gots to Thimk-accurately.



Ed: Happened months ago to stumble upon a video re rebuilding a [any hybrid] battery pack/with CAUTION and some basic follow-the-steps exactly ...
(even if you barely know Ohm's Law and what-means "KW-HOURS" stored there.)
I could do this, but likely wouldn't ever need-to. And moi bloody-well Knows what a KWhr "means". It's now in my genes.
Expand Edited by Ashton Dec. 26, 2017, 06:43:35 PM EST
New I will chat with the guys tommorow when I go back in
The only reason I know about the prius and naught else is that there a about 6 of them in the parking lot owned by ex airforce types that like them for milage. Stennis is a long way from anywhere commute wise.
One of my co-workers rebuilt the battery pack in his, wasnt dificult by itself but the stuff you have to remove to get to it is a beatch
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New finally got an answer
co-worker in question went on vacation for 3 weeks. Older model prius. H-pack cells got too low to charge via running the vehicle which ran with really bad milage during this time. He had to dismantle, identify the bad cells and replace then spent about a month tweaking until it got back up to snuff. Not necessarily expensive but a complete pain to get to and diag. took him a while to nurse it back.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Thanks..
Yeah, those would be NiMH cells ... having to mix-in a new cell? or look around for an OK one of similar age.
PITA. If access to battery-pack is also a time waster, even if you have an idea about "balancing" cells and similar. I gather that the "car" also needs time to learn the habits of the new pack; days? weeks?

Looks as if the Kia Niro is priced out of reach (alas) so I can delay getting ept.
New took him the best part of 2 weekends to get to done then then a month of running to balance out
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New Relatedly - BBC - Real world emissions: 2009 diesel vs 23 year old gas VW Golf.
New Prii.
Theoretically, AFAICS.
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New We love our 2017 Corolla
Ridiculously good gas mileage for an internal combustion only engine; we regularly get over 32 around town and 40+ on the highway. The base model includes auto-cruise and lane-keeping as well.

Starts at $18.5K too.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New I could live with that..
but co-partner wants some *Kewlishness in the beast, and Corolla is intentionally boring-so-as-to run forever/never mind games in the swervery.

* Not that I'm immune to that siren call ;^> just ... Been there/done that. Mere transport next ... shall {{sob}} suffice.
Besides: it would out-live moi, unless the Gods are Crazy..
.
.
.
.
.
no, wait.. we Have one of those right Here! :-)
New BTW, the sound of " Mammon-run-amok" reminds me of...
"Amarok".

Precisely what you need, isn't it?
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New I know nothing about the naming, but ...
it strikes me as a dig/poke at Chevy trucks for their "like a rock" slogan from a decade or more ago.

"I'm not 'like a rock' I *am* a rock!"

Of course, rocks don't really work as transportation systems, so...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

;-)

Cheers,
Scott.
New (thumbsup)
Whut, no emojis in subject lines?
New Nahhh.. Admin knoze that
We'd run .. "Amarok
     As tis the Season of Mammon-run-amok.. I be looking for a New automotive device. - (Ashton) - (19)
         Cars are a big pain in the butt. - (Another Scott)
         i have 29k miles on the 2017 focus thus far. Am wellpleased with the handling and the tranny - (boxley) - (11)
             Drove one briefly. - (Ashton) - (9)
                 What's your time frame? - (crazy) - (1)
                     My tack also, but - (Ashton)
                 It's not exactly clear, but I think (in the USA) only the Prius Prime has Li-Ion batteries. - (Another Scott)
                 Addendum re hybrid battery systems - (Ashton) - (4)
                     I will chat with the guys tommorow when I go back in - (boxley) - (3)
                         finally got an answer - (boxley) - (2)
                             Thanks.. - (Ashton) - (1)
                                 took him the best part of 2 weekends to get to done then then a month of running to balance out -NT - (boxley)
                 Relatedly - BBC - Real world emissions: 2009 diesel vs 23 year old gas VW Golf. - (Another Scott)
             Prii. - (CRConrad)
         We love our 2017 Corolla - (malraux) - (1)
             I could live with that.. - (Ashton)
         BTW, the sound of " Mammon-run-amok" reminds me of... - (CRConrad) - (3)
             I know nothing about the naming, but ... - (Another Scott) - (2)
                 (thumbsup) -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                     Nahhh.. Admin knoze that - (Ashton)

Dang a lang, dang a lang.
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