IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Neo-nazis were among them, leading them at times.
Or is the BBC a member of your "Team Moffitt" as well?
Inside the columned central hall of Kiev's city council, an activist base of operations, hung a giant banner with a Celtic cross, a symbol of "white power," and an American confederate flag.

Over the doorway was an immense portrait of Stepan Bandera, the Ukrainian nationalist partisan leader during World War Two, who at one point was allied with the Nazis.

These two images illustrate how complex and contradictory is the subject of the far right in Ukraine's mass protest movement, the Euromaidan.

Their role in ousting the president and establishing a new Euromaidan-led government should not be exaggerated.

But, as the second image shows, nor should their involvement be played down, especially now they have assumed key ministerial posts. ...

The ultra-nationalists, and their extreme right fringe, are a small part of the overall campaign - a subgroup of a minority. They are concentrated primarily amid the tents, barricades and self-defence units of the Maidan, the shorthand term for the movement's core.

However, even though the far right are a minority, for their numbers they have played an outsized, though not decisive, role. What is more, at key points they have influenced the course of the demonstrations.

And, at times, they have appeared to be the driving force behind the Maidan - which has become an actor in the protests in its own right, alongside the political parties, the government and the Ukrainian population as a whole.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26468720
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New I recall it was rilly-Complex/on inspection, then (Duh) ... worse.. on U/S. boob-tubes du jour
Looking for smidgeons of credibility? amidst the blaring bull-horns and propaganda on all Scales: ya-shure.
(I thought then that, Cyrillic-literacy would have been a useful fumigator amidst the cacophony.)

Considerable focussed delving was just mandatory Then and assuredly still as the verbal-war morphs on.
How many Heroic 'delvers' are to be found in ..say, a One's address book?
(..is that a qed?)
The T.M.I. ... almost as malleable as any Useful-Idiot right now, as the Drumpf mental-pandemic makes hourly utility of catalyzing Chaos.
I can't imagine this New-speak reverting to the discipline of real-Language, any decade-soon.
Vulture-C. guarantees the primacy of the BIg-lie/inseparable as that is re Big-$$$. No?



Citizen Robespierre would smile, transplanted to now: all those opportunities. Exponentially multiplying.
Nope, no Barricades/Torches do I anticipate in the dis-U.S. It's too-much Trouble to attract a following horde.

I. Believe. ... I'll have a draught of Moscato Amabile, pet something and ..
New Except the Beeb isn't saying what you were saying; more like the opposite.
"Their role ... should not be exaggerated."; "...a small part of the overall campaign - a subgroup of a minority."

Whereas you've been screeching "UKRAINIAN NAZI REGIME IS FULL OF NAZIS AND NAZI NAZI NAZI!" for years now. (Or should we start counting in decades; it's been over a dozen years since the Orange Revolution.)
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New That's what some Trump defenders have been saying
Eg: Even if there are in fact white supremacists who support Trump, their total numbers are so small that it's not fair to paint all his supporters with that same brush.

But we say he accepts - even courts - their support, and the bulk of his supporters don't speak out against them either.

So yeah, when a vocal minority sets the tone and direction of a movement, it's not unreasonable to tag everyone with their label.

[edit:tyop]
--

Drew
Expand Edited by drook Sept. 12, 2017, 10:23:21 AM EDT
New Difference being, the only ones...
...the only ones not admitting that "the tone and direction" of the Trump administration and party is going from dogwhistles to an ever more open embrace of the "alt-right" and White Supremacy movements are his "base". Those few of them who aren't part of it, revelling in it, and themselves proudly echoing it, that is.

Whereas the only ones who do claim "the tone and direction" of the Ukrainian government as a whole is Nazi that I've ever heard from are precisely Russia Today and other Kremlin media, plus people like Mike who echo those.

AFAICS, "the silent majority" -- all the rest of us, we who don't belong to either of these lunatic fringes (Or should that just be "this lunatic fringe"; is there any diff?) -- are hearing that pretty clearly from Trump and from Russia, but not from the Ukrainians.
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New I think you've got me and someone Scott called "Bob" confused with one another.
From Scott's post:
I've been bored by arguments about the "Neo-Nazis" and "fascists" in Kiev for quite a while. There is a guy, "Bob in Portland", on Balloon-Juice who throws that up almost every time Ukraine comes up. It's pointless to argue with him. It's like trying to argue about the impossibility of Noah's ark - without an agreed basis for discussion, it's pointless to imagine that minds will be changed. I learned that long ago.

http://forum.iwethey.org/forum/post/394040/


Here's me:

I sincerely wish both sides would stop shooting and find a peaceful solution. I recall about half of my classmates in Kiev were Russians. We, of course, were children and immune to the hatred of our elders. My best friends then were Sasha (Russian), Borya (Ukrainian), Artur (Ukrainian) and Alexei (Russian). There were others, of course, and we played football (not our abortion of a game, the real one) every single day after school in front of the Hotel Europe. I think about those kids today and am horrified that they (or their children) might be trying to kill each other.

http://forum.iwethey.org/forum/post/394116/

I looked back through my posts and I only found one post in which I used the words "Nazi" or "neo-Nazi". It was a part of single post in the thread above titled "In the field of battle, both sides commit atrocities." That's hardly screeching "NAZI AND NAZI AND NAZI". Here's the comment:

When the heads of a Far Right (read: Neo-Nazi) government start admonishing their own politicians to "kneel before the Army" and blatantly quashes any complaints about the bombing of the nation's own civilians, it should send off alarm bells.

You don't find rt a reputable source? Think the story is false? There's an embedded Youtube video that proves the accuracy of the report.

http://forum.iwethey.org/forum/post/394023/
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New BiP was a brick wall when it came to Ukraine.
Haven't seen him post much of anything since around a year after the MH-17 incident.

You're no BiP. ;-)

However, I did find this:

8/18/14 3:23:43 PM

Eh, wiki's not authoritative anyway. ;0)

I'm not Gerald Ford. I won't say the Ukraine is free from Russian influence. But the fact remains that had not the Neo-Nazis created a violent atmosphere in Kiev, events should have, could have and would have turned out much differently. And let's be clear, the West was pushing for Ukraine to enter NATO. We have consistently broken our promises to Russia and brought NATO all the way to her borders. We are the aggressors and have always been. Nukes in Turkey pointed at Moscow are okay but retaliatory nukes in Cuba? WE MUST LAUNCH ON THE GODLESS COMMUNISTS IMMEDIATELY! I've little doubt that the West will get their way - we always do. Putin, like Kruschev before him, is a vastly superior world citizen than Merkel, Cameron or Obama. For the sake of world peace, Kruschev was willing to leave Moscow open to a nuclear attack to which he could not respond. Similarly, for the sake of world peace, Putin will have to lose the Ukraine and endure being surrounded by hostile forces. That's the way we roll in the West. That may well bring an end to the cult of personality surrounding Putin. Russians don't like having Nazis or their sympathizers on their western border - that didn't turn out too well for them before. And if Putin's loss of the Ukraine costs him all his power at home, then what? This is a dangerous game we're playing


I'd hope that you don't still feel that way...

Cheers,
Scott.
New I was going to Google, but thanks, AS! Mike: Need a fire extinguisher for those trousers?
New Heh.
I didn't see the thread you posted in my very limited, very manual search. My mistake. I certainly didn't intentionally overlook it.

With the exception of calling Putin a statesman, I don't think what I said in that post was all that outrageous. Not when we have photos like this, for example. Or the reporting that Robert Parry did subsequent to my post in pieces like this one and this one about Vicky Nuland. Here's another article from a different source on that leaked phone call.

I haven't changed my mind about, overall, our being the aggressor against Russia. From sending our troops to overthrow the Russian government in its infancy, to the missiles of October, to the "not one inch east" lie, to Victoria Nuland's work for destabilization, the US has always been playing with the White pieces in this chess game.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New So Putin's better than Obama, still, then? Okay...
New What do you think I meant by, "With the exception of calling Putin a statesman"?
Maybe that still isn't explicit enough. No, I do not believe Putin is superior, in any way, to Merkel, Cameron or Obama as I'd previously suggested.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
Expand Edited by mmoffitt Sept. 12, 2017, 03:18:33 PM EDT
New Dunno. :-) Thanks, it's clear now.
New Yeah, I think that knee-jerk is going to be with me my whole life.
"Superior World Citizen" is not a moniker that belongs to Putin, but it certainly did belong to Khrushchev.

I know that, especially for a Democrat, criticizing his holiness John F. Kennedy is political blasphemy in the extreme, but I'll always be grateful (as should every living person on the globe) that when it came to nuclear weaponry, Khrushchev demonstrated vastly superior, infinitely more sane leadership.

I wonder, had he not been martyred, would more Americans see JFK as the rabid anti-Communist (dare I say Bircher?) that he was and scorn the Bay of Pigs and the missile fiascos? It has always bugged me that we treat JFK as some kind of legendary hero who "kept missiles out of Cuba!!!11ONE" when he was just YAN neocon from the Worthless Thumb willing to blow the entire world up to maintain military superiority and first strike capability against the CCCP with no fear of any retaliatory capability. The ridiculousness of the fabled "missile gap" that was bandied about by him and Tricky Dick during the campaign is laughable now, but that's the MIC propaganda both were spewing at the time and a lot of people believed it.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New A gazillion links looks impressive at first.
Until one realises they're all to posts in a single thread.

A thread where you l[a|i]bel the Ukrainian Army "aggressors" for fighting an insurrection armed and abbetted by Russia. This was apparently meant as an excuse for the lynching or attenmpted lynching of a Ukrainian citizen for supporting her own nation's armed forces.

Sorry, but if you thought that demonstrates your level-headedness on matters Ukrainian, you've failed to convince at least me. Your whole line of reasoning feels somewhat surreal; not too dissimilar, actually, to the weird disorientation one feels when hearing Trump or Putin matter-of-factly spouting some total Alice-in-Wonderland spin.
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
     Team Moffitt. - (a6l6e6x) - (22)
         so furriners are not allowed to post about merika? why not? - (boxley) - (5)
             Not when they are fake Americans and have an agenda to harm US. - (a6l6e6x) - (4)
                 so you are totally against americans posing as syrians denigrating Assad and Hezbullah? -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                     Links, details, back-story or you're just Wash.Times-ing all over the pixels again. - (Ashton) - (1)
                         here ya go - (boxley)
                     That's war by another name and tactic. - (a6l6e6x)
         Язык лепечет, а голоба не после ведает. - (mmoffitt) - (15)
             You're the one that had Nazis overthrowing a democratic Ukraine. - (a6l6e6x) - (14)
                 Neo-nazis were among them, leading them at times. - (mmoffitt) - (13)
                     I recall it was rilly-Complex/on inspection, then (Duh) ... worse.. on U/S. boob-tubes du jour - (Ashton)
                     Except the Beeb isn't saying what you were saying; more like the opposite. - (CRConrad) - (11)
                         That's what some Trump defenders have been saying - (drook) - (1)
                             Difference being, the only ones... - (CRConrad)
                         I think you've got me and someone Scott called "Bob" confused with one another. - (mmoffitt) - (8)
                             BiP was a brick wall when it came to Ukraine. - (Another Scott) - (6)
                                 I was going to Google, but thanks, AS! Mike: Need a fire extinguisher for those trousers? -NT - (CRConrad)
                                 Heh. - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                     So Putin's better than Obama, still, then? Okay... -NT - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                         What do you think I meant by, "With the exception of calling Putin a statesman"? - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                             Dunno. :-) Thanks, it's clear now. -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                 Yeah, I think that knee-jerk is going to be with me my whole life. - (mmoffitt)
                             A gazillion links looks impressive at first. - (CRConrad)

Given enough thrust, even pigs will fly.
155 ms