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New You're conflating sex and gender. They're not the same thing.
New Trying to teach English to the English is sooooooo hard.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New What are you trying to tell me? That disease states are "normal" states? <sigh right back>
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Thought it was pretty clear. Real-world biology isn't binary.
Someone who has extra (or missing) chromosomes isn't less human and doesn't deserve to be treated as such. Or someone whose brain is put together a little differently even if they don't have an easily visible genetic difference.

Was Einstein "abnormal"? Was Turning? Was Meitner?

Insisting on putting people in bins is stupid.

Your personal feelings about "the purpose of marriage" and the "definition of a family" should have little or no impact on whether two others want to get married or not. Or whether they get the benefits of marriage and family that other couples get, or not.

But, as you say, we've been through all of this before.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New We're at a dead end, but I have to say a couple of things.
1) "Family" doesn't (and never did) have anything to do with marriage imo.
2) As things are now, the best thing to do is to eliminate the requirement of a license of any kind for marriage. Eliminating marriage licenses would bring reason to the widely popular misconception that a marriage is between two people.

I think (2) is as close as we're ever going to get to consensus, but we still would have disagreements. The elimination of (2) would, of necessity, eliminate any State benefits to the condition of being married. I'd be okay with that. I suspect you wouldn't.

But I've lost what little faith I had in our people so I don't really care much either way at this point.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Oh, the dictionary. That's where I, too, go to understand complex issues of sexuality and gender.
The real world is, as usual, considerably more complex than a reductivist such as yourself would like it to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction

The distinction between sex and gender differentiates sex (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics) from gender, which can refer to either social roles based on the sex of the person (gender role) or personal identification of one's own gender based on an internal awareness (gender identity).[1][2] In some circumstances, an individual's assigned sex and gender do not align, and the person may be transgender,[1] non-binary, or gender-nonconforming. In some cases, an individual may have biological sex characteristics that complicate sex assignment, and the person may be intersex.

The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably.[3][4] Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not.

Among scientists, the term sex differences (as compared to gender differences) is typically applied to sexually dimorphic traits that are hypothesized to be evolved consequences of sexual selection.[5][6]

Now, if your takeaway from that is "well sex and gender are the same thing, innit" then you're probably a bit of an idiot.

Just because people use "sex" and "gender" interchangeably doesn't mean that it's accurate. In the same way that most people talk about wheel nuts on their car, when 90% of the time they really mean wheel bolts. In casual conversation people know what you mean, but if you buy wheel nuts when you needed wheel bolts, well. You're going to have a bad time when it comes to wheel-fitting.
New Oh, Wikipedia. What better source of information could there be? And I'm the idiot.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Keep digging. ;-)
New Many times you post I think of this comic
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

Please read it.

Back to this thread:

Sure, you should consider the source. But not discount it totally. It is simply a starting point. And usually points to great original sources.
New what, you never dated a hermaphrodite? are you sure?
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
     On CNN (main page) just Now: - (Ashton) - (23)
         Die flyovers, die. You *DESERVE* it! - (mmoffitt) - (22)
             There is only one thing that is certain . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (21)
                 I can't speak for anywhere other than Indiana. - (mmoffitt) - (20)
                     “xenophobic, racist and ignorant” - (rcareaga) - (16)
                         and myself? Has the dementia really taken hold? You're about the right age, I guess. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (15)
                             You’ve softened your former stance on transgender, then? - (rcareaga) - (14)
                                 Softened my stance? To what are you referring? - (mmoffitt) - (13)
                                     So, the important thing about marriage is . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                         Well, at least in this country. - (mmoffitt)
                                     You're conflating sex and gender. They're not the same thing. -NT - (pwhysall) - (10)
                                         Trying to teach English to the English is sooooooo hard. - (mmoffitt) - (9)
                                             (sigh) - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                                 What are you trying to tell me? That disease states are "normal" states? <sigh right back> -NT - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                     Thought it was pretty clear. Real-world biology isn't binary. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                         We're at a dead end, but I have to say a couple of things. - (mmoffitt)
                                             Oh, the dictionary. That's where I, too, go to understand complex issues of sexuality and gender. - (pwhysall) - (4)
                                                 Oh, Wikipedia. What better source of information could there be? And I'm the idiot. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                     Keep digging. ;-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                     Many times you post I think of this comic - (crazy)
                                                     what, you never dated a hermaphrodite? are you sure? -NT - (boxley)
                     "Belief" is not just Christianity. - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
                         Kudos.. rather Clearly limned - (Ashton)
                         No, it isn't. But it does make one comfortable (far too much so) with "believing in falsehoods." -NT - (mmoffitt)

LRPD in a coma, I know, I know... it's serious.
97 ms