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New box has a point.
There are many, many people who feel the way he does. Look, we want (mostly) the same thing. Neither of us want oligarchy. That said, it can be reasonably argued that we've always had it, just not to this extent. But I completely agree with you that it, historically, had been the Democratic Party that mitigated some of the worst of our economic system. That all changed. When Jimmy Carter was nominated and I was working on my Democratic Party's Congressional candidate's campaign *and* Jimmy Carter's, nearly everyone I worked with lamented that the ticket wasn't reversed. We all knew that Carter was much further to the Right on a lot of issues that we cared about. But the alternatives were unthinkable (most notably Reagan as Gerald Ford could be a Democrat today).

Look at the legislation that was passed in the 1960's and tell me how much of that you think the Democratic Party today would have even suggested. VISTA, the Job Core, Headstart, the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, Medicare, Medicaid, the Education Act (established the first federally funded scholarships), the Open Housing Act, the Low Income Housing Bill, not to mention NASA. Can you honestly tell me the New Democratic Party would have introduced *any* of that? NASA took two Democratic Presidents, but the rest *all* happened under ONE Democratic President. That all this happened in my first decade of life obviously helped establish my view of the Democratic Party. The complete asshats that followed I can barely stomach. I know it is not the political party it used to be and so does everyone else. And when I say "everyone", I mean the people who now call themselves "Independents" or choose to sit out the process because no one is advocating for truly Democratic principles anymore. Well, okay, there was that Old Socialist Guy, but he was crazy, right?

The first half-step Right was Carter, then Bill Clinton bolted Right and took the entire party along with him. Then Obama (the assassination King) kept the pace up, betraying the people who'd swallowed his "Hope for Change" message in 2008. Acknowledging this wild Right swing over the past 40 years is the first step toward correcting it and if you think the Right's influence on the party has waned, think again. Who is it that is the DNC Chief today?

There are reasons why the Democratic Party has gone from being the party of the majority of registered voters by a margin of sometimes better than two to one, to trailing Independents by 7 percentage points. The party abandoned its core principles. I'll concede "they're still better than the other guys" but that's not saying very much. If you want people like box and me and the millions of Independents out there to support the lesser evil, the DNC better put a candidate on the ticket next time who looks, sounds and most importantly, acts like the Democrats of my childhood. These Eisenhower Republicans are not going to cut it anymore. Not for a great many of us. And that doesn't bode well for any of us.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Meh.
Everyone isn't going to agree.

Times change. Tell me about the equivalent to Obamacare that Johnson passed. Etc.

As long as you continue to see the glass as 90% empty when a Democrat is in office, rather than recognizing that the Democrats prevented the Teabaggers from smashing the glass to bits and sent us down the road to dehydration and death, then you're going to be disappointed. :-/

The (slightly) more liberal guy was flawed - he had little to no support among women and minorities. (Shall we talk about the NRA?) A Democrat can't win without their support. And he didn't (ignoring the fact, for the moment, that he's still not a Democrat). He's got huge baggage (his writings, his interviews, where are his taxes?, what are his campaign's ties to Putin?, his inability to explain how he would "break up the banks", etc.). And too many voters (I'm among them) don't agree with his thesis that everything in politics is economics and that all the bad thing about economics can be fixed in Washington or that McConnell "looking out his window" at a big rally is the way to actually make progress.

But we're just going around in circles.

Who do you like in 2020, and think could actually win? I dunno. I think Bernie is too old and too damaged. You? Surely out of 100+M Democrats there's someone out there that you think could get 66+M popular votes and 270 EC votes. (Not just someone whose policies you like, but someone who could actually win.)

Is there a dark horse out there? I remember being surprised when Silverlock (IIRC) came out early for Obama before he even announced (IIRC). But he was right.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Re: Tell me about the equivalent to Obamacare that Johnson passed.
You cannot be serious. Really? Well, you're right. Johnson didn't get "the equivalent to Obamacare" passed, he got two things vastly superior passed and I included them above. Medicare and Medicaid ring any bells? ;0)

Who do I think would be a good candidate in 2020? I honestly don't know. I've heard some grumblings about nobody being "obvious" already, but geez, man, it's four years out. I would have loved Jerry Brown but he,like Sanders, is too old now. And Jerry's drifted a little Right over the years as well, although nowhere near as far Right as the rest of the party. Some have suggested Gavin Newsom, but I don't know if I could support him or not - nothing against him, I just don't know a lot about him.

I'm coming to conclude that this whole self-government experiment is an epic failure and total disaster. 538's still got (today!) Drumpf at 39% approval. How much more evidence of the American People's inability to properly govern themselves does one need? :-\
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Medicare and Medicaid grew into great programs. They didn't start that way.
https://www.cms.gov/About-CMS/Agency-Information/History/index.html

https://www.cms.gov/About-CMS/Agency-Information/History/Downloads/Medicare-and-Medicaid-Milestones-1937-2015.pdf (9 page .pdf)

They together weren't comprehensive to the population as a whole. We're much, much closer to universal insurance under Obamacare than we were in 1965.

HTH.

Nixon still had a lot of supporters when he got on that chopper, also too. He was around 25% for nearly a year before he resigned.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/08/08/how-the-watergate-crisis-eroded-public-support-for-richard-nixon/

It's still early.

Don't give up. We've got lots of great days ahead of us, if we fight for the future we want.

Cheers,
Scott.
New already gave you two, begich and franken
both are workers, both understand how a budget works and they are likeable people
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New I like Franken a lot. Don't know Begich much at all. We'll see.
New Yeah, the champions of do-not-WANT-to-understand supporting each other.
Shouldn't both of you want to reconsider your view just because of the appaling ally you find you're lumping yourselves in with?
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New Sanders is "an appauling ally"?
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
     Serious question for Rand. - (mmoffitt) - (39)
         Hillary's done - (malraux)
         Can I answer this one? - (drook) - (21)
             I'm certain (although no time to actually document)... - (mmoffitt) - (20)
                 Fair enough - (drook) - (19)
                     I sure do think that. - (mmoffitt) - (18)
                         That explains a lot - (drook) - (2)
                             Those people are called Republicans. They just don't want to fess up in polite company. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                             By Jove!, this sane discussion is a pukka partial-Reason - (Ashton)
                         You seem to be intentionally confusing things. - (Another Scott) - (14)
                             as you may be. The elction is over in 2020 there is a new one - (boxley) - (4)
                                 WND and the like will rot your brain. I've told you that for years now... - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                     havent read wnd since I called farah out on BS and he wouldnt budge - (boxley) - (2)
                                         I call bullshit - (rcareaga) - (1)
                                             I dont care if you have insensitive testicles - (boxley)
                             box has a point. - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                 Meh. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                     Re: Tell me about the equivalent to Obamacare that Johnson passed. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                         Medicare and Medicaid grew into great programs. They didn't start that way. - (Another Scott)
                                     already gave you two, begich and franken - (boxley) - (1)
                                         I like Franken a lot. Don't know Begich much at all. We'll see. -NT - (Another Scott)
                                 Yeah, the champions of do-not-WANT-to-understand supporting each other. - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                     Sanders is "an appauling ally"? -NT - (mmoffitt)
                             And it's obvious-enough shorthand that to not understand it, you have to WANT to not understand it. -NT - (CRConrad)
         Late to the party, but OK - (rcareaga) - (7)
             If your attitude is prevalent, 2020's general is going to be close. - (mmoffitt) - (6)
                 speaking of attitude - (rcareaga) - (5)
                     Do you want to be right, or do you want to win? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                         Is that really you asking that question? -NT - (drook) - (3)
                             Isn't it clear Right leaning Democrats can't? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                 Democrats picked up House and Senate seats in 2016. So much for "can't win"... -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                     Oh, so that put in the majority. My Bad. How'd State governments do? -NT - (mmoffitt)
         Gotcher liberal condescension right here - (rcareaga) - (7)
             Ah, mind reading! :) - (a6l6e6x)
             The closing paragraph is a killer. - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                 You know it's satire, and not written by Gore, right? -NT - (drook) - (4)
                     My (perhaps charitable) reading - (rcareaga) - (3)
                         You had it right the first time. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                             well, then, we’ve established still more common ground -NT - (rcareaga) - (1)
                                 There's more common ground than not, imo. -NT - (mmoffitt)

We're on a mission from GRR.
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