The American Dichotomy

Post #418,950 by pwhysall 7/18/17 7:55:21 AM 7/18/17 7:55:21 AM Reply	The American Dichotomy I've often expressed my mild bemusement at the aspect of the American condition whereby almost any regulation by The State (federal or otherwise) is (arguably rightly) seen as a damnable imposition for which there is no space in any right-thinking American's life... ...because that space is reserved for a shitload of inscrutable and irrational regulations that are imposed by society, the local HOA, and employers - all of which aren't democratically accountable, but that's OK because reasons! https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/7/17/15973478/bosses-dictators-workplace-rights-free-markets-unions Snark aside, why is this? Why are Americans on the one hand so keen to embrace genuinely good concepts like the First and Fourth amendments (both of which I would dearly love to see enshrined in UK law pretty much as-is), and yet on the other are so quick to dash to the defence of utter bullshit like "right to work"? What is the deal with willingly buying a house in a location where a bunch of busybody too-much-free-time-hoo-boy-a-little-authority-is-a-dangerous-thing bags of absolute wank get to actually fine or even foreclose on you for not cutting your grass to the prescribed length? Why would anyone who's even slightly bothered about the overreach of the government submit to this sort of bollocks? (Pro Tip: speaking as someone who has pretty good workers' rights, workers' rights are fucking awesome.)
Post #418,951 by drook 7/18/17 8:53:24 AM 7/18/17 8:53:24 AM Reply	My theory: everyone thinks they can be rich The anti-regulation is 100% grade-school "you're not the boss of me". We just don't like to be told what to do. But we let businesses tell us what to do in their building because if I get to set the rules in my house, it makes sense they can set the rules in their building. So people have an intuitive understanding of how ownership confers rights, but they idea that government is how we exercise collective ownership is too abstract a concept. In short, people think, "If I owned a company I'd want to set the rules." Because we all think we could be Bill Gates if we caught the right break. -- Drew
Post #418,964 by Another Scott 7/18/17 3:50:32 PM 7/18/17 3:50:32 PM Reply	Well said. Also... A lot of it is willful blindness. On the HOA issue, lots of people look at a "nice" neighborhood and decide to live there, but don't understand all the petty politics that many HOAs have. They get upset when they're affected by it, but not before. Of course, we all compartmentalize, too. Even the supposed greatest free marketeers don't like being cheated or lied to, or treated in ways that they think are unfair. For a recent over the top example, see Ann Coulter (5:15) - Warning Autoplay. Cheers, Scott.
Post #418,968 by Ashton 7/18/17 5:29:11 PM 7/18/17 5:29:11 PM Reply	Concur entirely on that title. Seen in my familia {{sigh}} as all over. The BS which keeps the shoulder-to-the-wheel, nose-to-grindstone, the eye-on-the-ball (with no energy left to Think about what it's like: Living in that 'position'.) This asinine Wrongth ..eet ees Everywhere! (Especially awful: not ever realizing just WHAT kind of a $$$-obsessed psyche ... this thought will Turn-You INTO.)
Post #418,954 by mmoffitt 7/18/17 9:47:11 AM 7/18/17 9:47:11 AM Reply	Do not read our Bill of Rights to understand us. The Amendments you cite were written a very, very long time ago by a very, very different sort of Americans. I doubt seriously the Bill of Rights would pass today. Consider this, for example. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,967 by Ashton 7/18/17 5:14:19 PM 7/18/17 5:17:04 PM Reply	¡Precísamente! Señor.. I believe it (has become) Obvious that the Bill of Rights is, to too-Fucking-many: deemed to be some pinko-commyunist-derived Error on the part of the FF's (er.. founding fathers.) Proof? por moi ... simply: My Gramma™, an otherwise intelligent Reporter (before 'journalist' was ever a meme.) She, a Bircher, exemplifies the flyover mentality to a fare-thee-unwell. (Racist? of course; facile unsorted-eclectic 'memory'? Of Course. Etc.) Then there's the intellectual-resentment (cf. Alex's perfect-sig.) I shudder upon realizing that--even moi--as callow-yout had early-on grokked that: my 'Civics' courses were pure fantasy /along with that everlasting-BS of Murican Exceptionalism. We ARE the Enemy-to-all higher=principles i.e. to Ourselves. Billions of words that would frost the balls of Stuart Chase [The Tyranny of Words guy] ... are the pabulum which attended every tyke's Intro-to-Murica, from the cradle on. Rest Case; we're right on the Tipping-point of (almost-literally in cases like Ann Coulter et al) Throwing Out The Baby with the Bathwater. :-/ Glad I won't live to see THIS denouement as Murican-Ugliness is legendary in its vituperative/shadenfreude-possessed Awfulness. Meanwhile, a DRUMPF HAS!! the nuclear Football (what a lovely euphemism in a kultur which has ONLY euphemisms in answer to ..all the Great Questions of consciousness.) Psychotoic-psyches are the Creatures of such double-think mindlessness: Look Around. Carrion: it's US Ed: 2 oTpy Edited by Ashton July 18, 2017, 05:17:04 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #419,359 by CRConrad 7/31/17 6:32:30 AM 7/31/17 6:32:30 AM Reply	As confirmed recently when another work of those long-ago Americans was tweeted at their descendants https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/05/some-trump-supporters-thought-npr-tweeted-propaganda-it-was-the-declaration-of-independence/ -- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi (Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
Post #419,367 by mmoffitt 7/31/17 8:26:47 AM 7/31/17 8:26:47 AM Reply	Thanks! I'd missed that. Now, to laugh? Or to weep? bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,973 by boxley 7/18/17 10:36:02 PM 7/18/17 10:36:02 PM Reply	The Britsh Dichotomy over here we get bemused that you will allow your government to put a colonoscopy into public life but terrorize business for try the same thing. The absolute opposite here. We give all of our privacy to business yet resent that the government wants in on the act. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #418,976 by pwhysall 7/19/17 3:00:23 AM 7/19/17 3:00:23 AM Reply	Different relationship to the State You folks basically mistrust your state completely, which, as it turns out, is pretty much the correct thing to do - the American government and more specifically the organs of government that interact with the citizenry (security services, and especially the police) are demonstrably hazardous to your health. The thing I see - and, I suppose, the hypothesis I'm testing - is that although J. Random Merkin distrusts The State, there seems to be some weird kind of need for authority emanating from somewhere - hence the cheerful ceding of rights to unaccountable entities. We don't massively distrust our state in the same way. We do, of course, think that it comprises a pack of feckless grasping chiselling shits. That's a given. But we have this thing where we quietly just ignore things that are too onerous or just a bit silly. To address your specific point: in the workplace, where the practical application of authority has much more effect on everyday life, we have arranged things so that fair play and decent treatment are (for the most part) comprehensively enshrined in law. It's all well and good having a pile of constitutional rights, but at the end of the day, man's gotta eat and provide for his family - and in an economy where it's a labour-buyer's market, the playing field is not just not level, it's fucking vertical. And that's just not cricket.
Post #418,981 by drook 7/19/17 7:53:10 AM 7/19/17 7:53:10 AM Reply	I think humans are generally hard-wired for deference to / need for authority Here we've just chosen not to express that trait in the one place we could hope to limit it's exploitability. -- Drew
Post #418,997 by crazy 7/19/17 11:22:29 AM 7/19/17 11:22:29 AM Reply	Not all of us I think it's a subconscious and sometimes conscious belief that we have no choice in our dealings with government but we do have a choice in dealings with business entities. Which then sets our attitude of what we'll accept from either.
Post #419,002 by drook 7/19/17 12:03:33 PM 7/19/17 12:03:33 PM Reply	Do people really believe that? The defenders of big corps always say you're free to quit, but that's just the flip side of rich and poor alike being forbidden to sleep under bridges. I'm pretty sure people staying in shitty jobs because they can't afford to lose their insurance are pretty clear on the functional limits of "freedom". -- Drew
Post #419,010 by boxley 7/19/17 6:23:07 PM 7/19/17 6:23:07 PM Reply	I was lookin for a job when I found this one I have left many jobs for various reasons and the healthcare plan was never part of the reasoning "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #419,012 by malraux 7/19/17 6:34:15 PM 7/19/17 6:34:15 PM Reply	Well, now we know about you. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.

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