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New I'm inclined to feel honored.
You actually kept some of my posts? I'd say, "I'm honored" but I have a nagging suspicion that the list you kept was designed to be used as a weapon at some point.

Whatever role you believe I (or anyone else) played in the last election, it pales in comparison to the role the DNC and, in particular, Hillary played. I'm the first to admit that Trump is nowhere near working out like I thought he would. I believed that once he was in office, he'd surround himself with the usual suspects. To a large extent, he did. Goldman Sachs is well represented in his administration as is Big Oil. Then, too, his alignment with the Speaker and grown-up version of Eddie Munster also gave me reason to believe he was going to do what I thought. But it turns out he makes Dubya look like a founding mensa member. From my POV, the Fascist Republican Party will need "successes" sufficient to demonstrate clearly to the knuckle-dragging 40% of Muricans who, incredibly, still support Republicans that they are backing the wrong horse. Strip them of their healthcare, their Social Security, let the Black Lung coal miners die due to the disappearance of their subsidized healthcare, let clean drinking water become a luxury only the top 10% can afford, destroy our educational system thereby insuring that only those that already have can get, etc. You know, the entire Republican Platform. That 40% is unreachable any other way and I believed Trump could give them what they've been asking for since Saint Ronald the Reagan was in office - and give it to them all at once.

This, as opposed to an HRC administration which would work toward that very same end, only incrementally. Then, too, it remains an open question who loves bombing brown people more - recall Hillary supported the air strikes on Syria Drumpf ordered.

But it is not to be, it appears. Trump is simply not an effective fascist notwithstanding the recent cabinet meeting where the Cult of Personality was on display for even the most myopic of minds. Pence, OTOH, might actually be able to implement some of the things Red Staters claim they want. If so, none will be more deserving.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New Don't.
Da Moffitt gibbers:
You actually kept some of my posts? I'd say, "I'm honored" but I have a nagging suspicion that the list you kept was designed to be used as a weapon at some point.
Of fucking course it was. Because "weapons" like that is the only thing (if even that) which is of any use against your monumental wrong-headedness. Kind of, you know, like the "weapons" of literal mass destruction you're advocating be used against the entire US population, n'est-ce pas? Only, of course, more justified and less horrendously nihilistic.[1]


Whatever role you believe I (or anyone else) played in the last election
That would be the role of not helping the faaaar lesser evil beat the far greater one, and even actually fighting against said "lesser evil" -- sure, "a difference in degree only", if one is such a blithering moron as to not yet have realised that a sufficiently large difference in degree is a difference in kind[1] -- thus actively aiding and abetting the greater evil. In short, in an idiom I trust will be familiar to you, the role of useful idiot.


it pales in comparison to the role the DNC and, in particular, Hillary played.
Oh, bullshit! Really. Sheer, unadultered, industrial-strength tinfoil-helmet alien-lizard-people drivel of the first degree.


I'm the first to admit that Trump is nowhere near working out like I thought he would.
No you're not. For one thing, almost fucking everybody told you long before the election that he wouldn't, and for another, you're only recently starting to admit it, in stead of, like, a week after the inauguration at the latest, when even deaf-blind prisoners in solitary confinement at the dankest prison in Calcutta would have known.


I believed that once he was in office, he'd surround himself with the usual suspects. To a large extent, he did. Goldman Sachs is well represented in his administration as is Big Oil.
Yeah, you seem to be about the only person in the world who didn't realise that the Republican gang of "usual suspects" is a fuck of a lot even worse than the corresponding Democrat gang. Gee, I sense a recurring theme, here...

But no, that's no defense. Everybody knew that; if you didn't, it was because you didn't want to know.


From my POV, the Fascist Republican Party will need "successes" sufficient to demonstrate clearly to the knuckle-dragging 40% of Muricans who, incredibly, still support Republicans that they are backing the wrong horse. Strip them of their healthcare, their Social Security, let the Black Lung coal miners die due to the disappearance of their subsidized healthcare, let clean drinking water become a luxury only the top 10% can afford, destroy our educational system thereby insuring that only those that already have can get, etc.
1) Ah, so you view the American people exactly like Stalin viewed the Ukrainian "kulaks" in the twenties. So stop it with the "Trotskyist" bullshit: Stalinist it is, for you.

2) Yeah, wreak havoc and destruction on 100% of Americans to "teach a lesson" to those 40% who support evil incarnate, bravo. Which is only necessary because some unknown percentage of fuckwits like you and Todd B couldn't be arsed to do what it took to stop said Evil beforehand, gibbering about how some perfectly ordinary technocrat run-of-the-mill politician was "equally eeevuuulll!" You know who that makes the actual bad guy here, just as fucking evil[2] as Trump himself?

You, that's who.

You and all the fuckwits like you, Todd and all the ludicrous Millennial hipster Bernoids. All of you.

Including you, Mike.

Personally.

You.


But it turns out he makes Dubya look like a founding mensa member.
Yeah, well, guess who else does that...?


This, as opposed to an HRC administration which would work toward that very same end, only incrementally.
What was that I said above...? Ah, yes: Oh, bullshit! Really. Sheer, unadultered, industrial-strength tinfoil-helmet alien-lizard-people drivel of the first degree.


But it is not to be, it appears. Trump is simply not an effective fascist notwithstanding the recent cabinet meeting where the Cult of Personality was on display for even the most myopic of minds.
Ah, what woe and regret I detect in your voice! How sad -- "Sad!" -- you are, that he isn't a sufficiently efficient genocidal tyrant! I'm moved to tears at your nostalgia for whichever it is that you're so heart-bereakingly longing for, whether it is Uncle Joe or Onkel Adolf; to tears, I say!


Pence, OTOH, might actually be able to implement some of the things Red Staters claim they want. If so, none will be more deserving.
Yeah, that'd be great... If he implemented them only for those Red-Staters. But that's not what you were hoping for, now is it?

Fuck, I don't know any more, does all this make you more of a moron or more of an arsehole? Heck, pending better data, I'll just have to go with fifty-fifty.



[1]: The latter applies to the former -- it's "only a difference in degree" of "weapons", but one that makes them wholly different in kind.

[2]: Albeit perhaps on a smaller scale. But, if one wants to insist -- as you are wont to do -- that differences in degree are not differences in kind, then yes: Exactly the same kind of evil.


Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi
(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New How much different is Mnuchin from Rubin?
Donovan from Summers? Cohn from Geithner? How, exactly, are Drumpf's Wall Streeters so much worse than the Wall Streeters Hillary would have appointed?

Emphasis added for those with low brows. That'd be you, Captain Fuckwit.

I don't think Clinton wakes up thinking about Wall Street," one senior banking industry lobbyist said.

There are hints in apparently leaked email discussions among Clinton's campaign staff that bankers are not far off the mark when they count on her to tread lightly.

Pressed during the campaign by progressive Democrats to call for a revival of the Glass-Steagall Act that would require separation of commercial and investment banking, Clinton ultimately refused. She also weighed another progressive favorite - a tax on financial transactions- but instead recommended a far narrower plan to tax only canceled orders by high speed traders. ... People who work for hedge funds and private equity firms have contributed more than $56 million to Clinton's presidential campaign and the supporting groups that face no legal cap on donations. Trump's campaign and related groups received just $243,000 from donors in the same sector, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics.

"It's basically going with the devil you know over the devil you don't," said Brian Gardner, a managing director of New York investment firm Keefe Bruyette & Woods. What also helped, he said, was the familiarity with Hillary and Bill Clinton dating back to the 1990s when her husband was president and ushered in a period of financial deregulation.

"There is a closeness and a comfort level between the titans on Wall Street and the Clintons," he said.

http://time.com/money/4554617/hillary-clinton-wall-street-backers-election/

What's our biggest problem? Economic inequality. That problem drives the majority of our social ills. Is it not clear, and I know I'm asking a lot from people who have enough not to worry about what it's like to try to house, feed and educate a family of four on $54,000/year, that when it comes to the biggest problem, the differences between Drumpf and Clinton really are one of degree only?

And what is with the incessant fucking apologizing for Hillary's SHITTY campaign? For fuck's sake, SHE LOST AN ELECTION TO DONALD TRUMP for Christ's sake. Isn't that enough? How about this? She didn't go to Wisconsin. That's whose fault exactly?

On a personal note, perhaps being a fucking ocean away precludes your knowledge of this, but I could have voted for Hillary Clinton in the general 500,000 times and she still would have lost the state in which I live. So you and everyone like you can piss right the fuck off for attempting to blame me or anyone like me, even partially, for the fact that the candidate with the most pathetic campaign in the history of campaigns lost the election.

According to you, Hillary is a "perfectly ordinary technocrat run-of-the-mill politician". How many of those make the money she and hubby have made in the payoff for deregulating Wall Street? What did that cost the average American? How many people lost their homes so that Hillary could take her millions in payoffs from the banksters who cost folks their homes?
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
New personalia
Two observations related to the thread itself, rather than its content.

Observation the first: When a tavern conversation takes a turn into shoving match territory, it is always gratifying to have CRConrad arrive on the scene in the leather motorcycle club vest (“Hell’s Project Managers”) with a length of greasy chain draped over his shoulder and brandishing a broken beer bottle in his mouse hand. Gives a feller a case of the warm and fuzzies, knowing CRC has his back.

Observation the second: Although here as in many matters mmoffitt remains firmly in the grip of a pre-existing philosophical condition that most of us regard as folly, it is difficult not to admire the vigorous gallop at which he rides these hobbyhorses, the tenacity with which he clings to the saddle as he traverses heavily-cratered ground, the relative equanimity of his ripostes. We’re not laughing at you, kid—well, actually, sometimes we are, but it’s, you know, friendly laughter.

Anyway, thanks to both named contributors for keeping these exchanges lively.

cordially,
New Ashton's citation seems appropriate here.
Teddy Roosevelt: Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience.

http://forum.iwethey.org/forum/post/418579/

It will have to get much, much worse before it gets any better. Because Teddy was and is right, electing Hillary really wouldn't have helped. With some 90 million American adults still supporting Trump, there's clearly been insufficient pain to date.
bcnu,
Mikem

It's mourning in America again.
Expand Edited by mmoffitt June 16, 2017, 04:41:20 PM EDT
New Heh.. Thing is:
I, for one, do not fancy that I can ken just how you might Rule, once elected Dictator of the former-dis-USA (in some fanciful musing as surely can't be much crazier than each day's unfolding events are.)

Especially, I deem that You: for having priceless/unedited! daily experience in the Belly of that erstwhile-Beast, cannot now be such a Naif as to have elided the absurdities also encountered--have thence been mulling over--within some cocoon, fed by no more perspicuous a brain-pan than [fill in any Repo of notoriety.]

Ergo, Lay On, MacDuff; you've Experienced shit which (save for Alex?) maybe no one else here has, first-hand.
J'Accuse!-not that your cognitive facilities were damaged irreparably by your experience, as a one might.. momentarily surmise from the er, Bikers w/Chains icon (with which friend Rand has jocularly assailed thee. :-)

Should you ever aviate-West and want to try the bucolic Santa Rosa Municipal Airport, 'twould be fun to discuss the Meaning of Liff (and one's , umm 'Being Partkdolg Duty' )... and like that. We might as well conjure up a coup, as seems to be the common indoor sport now or, soon will be, eh?

(Simply, I haven't The Time to await the entirely pwned-Grist-Mill of congressional inaction, imagining any palpable surcease. Language murder there is too deeply ingrained.)



Carrion.
     Well, at least my daughter got to go. - (mmoffitt) - (20)
         look on the bright side - (rcareaga) - (19)
             Did I say there wasn't a difference? - (mmoffitt) - (18)
                 “the difference is one of degree only” - (rcareaga) - (17)
                     You'd do well to drop the "purity ponies" meme then. - (mmoffitt) - (16)
                         Completely exasperated by your refusal to hear what people keep telling you - (drook) - (1)
                             Oh, okay. You're right. - (mmoffitt)
                         Did I say "purity ponies?" Should have said “snowflakes.” - (rcareaga) - (13)
                             I'm actually trying to help you. - (mmoffitt)
                             As if on cue. - (mmoffitt) - (11)
                                 Seriously? - (drook) - (10)
                                     She started it. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                     Re: Seriously? - (rcareaga) - (8)
                                         Nice dodge. Neither of you commented on the content, only the sarcastic missive. Well done. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                             and you in turn - (rcareaga) - (6)
                                                 I'm inclined to feel honored. - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                     Don't. - (CRConrad) - (4)
                                                         How much different is Mnuchin from Rubin? - (mmoffitt)
                                                         personalia - (rcareaga)
                                                         Ashton's citation seems appropriate here. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                             Heh.. Thing is: - (Ashton)

Finito, bay-bee...
90 ms