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New Why?
--

Drew
New Re: Why?
." Investigators will have to determine whether the racial remarks were "sincere or just stupid ranting and raving" when considering a potential hate crime charge, Duffin said.
either the headline is stupid or the chicago cops are.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
New But is it a hate crime?
Some people argue there shouldn't be anything called a hate crime, because it's criminalizing not your action but your thoughts. Why did you beat the guy up? If you didn't hate him, isn't he just as beat up?

But if they are going to be charged with a hate crime, it does require that you demonstrate that the protected class was the reason for the attack. When someone is delivering a beating, they tend to say all kinds of things to annoy/insult/demean the victim. Those things aren't the reason for the beating.
--

Drew
New I agree the headline is stupid.
He was probably targeted at least in part because of his disability. The headline gives the impression that J Random Normal White Person was attacked.

Whether it's a "hate crime" under the law is something that does go to state of mind, etc., but that is different from the quality of the headline.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New I've recently been troubled by this sort of thing.
It should come as no surprise to anyone here that I am opposed to special classes of people being protected more than others. What these four atrocious characters did is well beyond the pale. I still get teary eyed thinking about my experiences as a volunteer for mentally handicapped people. IMO, these ghouls cannot be rehabilitated; nor can they ever contribute anything in a sufficient quantity to account for what they did to this poor young man. But should this case be handled specially on the basis of some class definition? Should we have litmus tests outlined in our laws to help us determine if this crime was hateful enough to justify stronger punishment? I don't know. I "get" the motivation for the establishment of hate crimes in law, but if this crime fails to meet the legal definition of a hate crime, is that really sufficient justification for lessening the potential punishment for it?

If our laws do not allow for the death penalty for these four hoodlums, then our laws are insufficient.
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New I used to be troubled by "hate crime" laws. Not anymore.
There is a huge, huge difference between attacking someone that is a member of a protected class and attack on some generic person in the majority. Sure, I would feel less safe if a neighbor was mugged in our neighborhood, but the few Blacks in our neighborhood would feel very much more under threat [edit:] if it happened to them. And rightly so.

It's no real imposition on the majority to be extra careful about violence and discrimination and maltreatment of minorities. At some point, most of us are vulnerable (infants, elderly, sick, injured). We should ask ourselves how we would feel if we were in their shoes and act accordingly.

On whether the punishment should be vastly different if someone in a protected class is attacked vs generic majority person, well, it depends I think. The devil's in the details.

I don't think the death penalty can be administered in an unbiased manner, and I don't think it serves as a deterrent for someone thinking about committing a crime (it might "help" in the plea bargaining stage, but holding up death as a possible punishment gives prosecutors a huge amount of power that can and has been abused.).

I didn't watch the press conference about it - maybe I'll have more to say about this later.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
Expand Edited by Another Scott Jan. 5, 2017, 04:06:40 PM EST
New ChiTrib story.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-facebook-live-attack-video-20170105-story.html

Hate crime charges have been filed against four people shown in a Facebook video attacking a mentally disabled man, cutting his scalp with a knife and punching him while yelling obscenities about Donald Trump and "white people."

Jordan Hill, 18, of Carpentersville, Tesfaye Cooper, 18, of Chicago, Brittany Covington, 18, of Chicago, and Tanishia Covington, 24, of Chicago were charged with aggravated kidnapping, hate crime, aggravated unlawful restraint and aggravated battery with a deadly weapon.

Hill also was charged with robbery, possession of a stolen motor vehicle and residential burglary, while Cooper and Brittany Covington were charged with residential burglary.

Sources said Hill attended the same school in the suburbs as the victim.

[...]


The charges sound appropriate to me.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Just watched the video
They have no problem showing the physical violence, but the cut out all the dialog that was actually the whole point of the headline. They already had the warning that it was graphic, how can they claim to be presenting news when they cut out the very thing the news is supposedly about?
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Drew
New Re: death penalty.
In general, I agree with you. However, the perpetrators in this case proudly filmed themselves committing this heinous act and broadcast it to the world. Their guilt is not in doubt. They are plainly violent sociopaths. They are irredeemable. This story is akin to an old Law and Order episode I saw years ago about a very young girl (around age 8) who had lured away and then killed one boy and was ultimately given probation by a family court judge. The closing scene was her making eyes at another young boy, about the age of her first victim. It was chilling. It would be even more chilling if these four were ever allowed to walk freely amongst us again. The only way to insure that doesn't happen is execution.

I heard a report that said the victim's family had dropped him off to "meet a friend" from school at a McDonald's. The "friend" is one of the four perpetrators. He is not worth the cost of a bullet to put in his head.
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New People can and do change. Especially 18 year olds...
New That's too deep a hole, my friend.
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
New Ah yes! A true Communist!
Communist regimes have always been very good at executions. They've had lots and lots of practice, so of course they're good at it.
New Hey! I'm trying to make an omelette here.
bcnu,
Mikem

Social Media is for Sociopaths.
     stupid headline of the day - (boxley) - (13)
         Why? -NT - (drook) - (12)
             Re: Why? - (boxley) - (11)
                 But is it a hate crime? - (drook) - (10)
                     I agree the headline is stupid. - (Another Scott) - (9)
                         I've recently been troubled by this sort of thing. - (mmoffitt) - (8)
                             I used to be troubled by "hate crime" laws. Not anymore. - (Another Scott) - (7)
                                 ChiTrib story. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                     Just watched the video - (drook)
                                 Re: death penalty. - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                     People can and do change. Especially 18 year olds... -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                         That's too deep a hole, my friend. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                     Ah yes! A true Communist! - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                         Hey! I'm trying to make an omelette here. -NT - (mmoffitt)

That sounds like a venereal disease.
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