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New I'm sorry for your loss.
A lot of people who attempt to take their own life are sending a cry for help. But if you use a gun, then you're more likely to succeed in the attempt whether you really mean it or not. Would they eventually succeed if a gun wasn't available?

Maybe.

But there might at least be time in which to intervene, if such an effective method was less readily available.

And you should note that at no point have I ever proposed banning guns.

My perfect gun world:

1. You can have a gun - it will be semi automatic with a clip of no more than 10 rounds, be it shotgun, long gun or pistol
2. You have to have a background check
3. Certain categories of mental and physical illness will preclude you from having a gun
4. You will have to refresh the background check periodically
5. You will have to undertake and pass a basic course in gun safety and maintenance (with additional requirements if you want to make your own ammo, mainly centred around making rounds that won't blow your face off)
6. There will be a national gun register, and maintaining this will be part of the deal when you buy or sell a gun
7. Criminal record? No gun for you
8. You will have a gun case and you will keep your guns and ammunition in it. If you want a gun for home defence, well, that's unfortunate. The police will just shoot you when you answer the door with gun in hand anyway
6. That's it. Go shoot stuff. Don't point it at anything you shouldn't.
New Thank you for the sympathy.
I don't really disagree with your list much, except number 7. All crimes? Including non-violent crimes? So, I shoplifted a six-pack in college, I lost my right to own a firearm? Change that to "Convicted of a violent crime" and I'm on board.

In my previous post I wasn't specifically talking about what you were advocating, I was attempting to reply to your question about whether the other option was doing nothing. It's not and pretty clearly enforcement of gun control legislation is unacceptedly weak. But gun control is only a part of the problem. We're a nation founded in violence. We committed genocide to get our land. We held people in chains to do our work and many of them were beaten regularly and viciously - if not hanged for offenses like looking at the Master's daughter a little too long. When we finally decided chaining people up wasn't a good idea, that didn't stop the violence. Violence is part and parcel of America. Physical violence, economic violence, what have you.

Particularly violence against people of color. It has been that way since the nation's founding. It's *NOT* an Old Southern problem either. Minnesota, New York, Indiana? Those aren't Southern states. I don't see how you "fix this whole thing" without "fixing racism, mental health care, income distribution and injustice" and I don't think that's going to happen any time soon here. We're still over 60% non-Hispanic White with roughly 16% Hispanic, 12% African-American and 5% Asian with Global Multinational Corporations in charge of their stooges in our government. How are you going to create a just society with those constraints? The answer is you're not going to. And that will feed violence. And that will feed senseless deaths, no matter what kind of weaponry is available.
New With you re ... A) the genocides ... B) lynchings
..perhaps the essence of Muricans' worst proclivities? when combined with the underlying Violence seen everywhere from a bedroom to a boardroom, aka the bullying.
Conflate these to our National xenophobia, the smug sanctimony inculcated by the Puritans ... and the hypocrisy which accompanies all of the above + Moar.

I deem those anti-qualities quite enough reason to be wary of ... {{very-many Muricans..}}
whether or not also silver-tongued orators.
Especially anyone with the insouciance to claim, Hey! I'm Honest!

(Having a Bircher-Grandma kinda prepped moi to: look more-Closely at ... oh. just anyone claiming to be 'an Adult', rather early-on.)
New lets assume that all of your points were in place here
which of these notions, or a combination of these notions would have stopped the shooting in dallas?
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
New You're right, need to add one to the list
Kill an unarmed person under color of law: murder 1.

Maybe after a few years of that we wouldn't keep having these protests about police killing people.

[edit] Freakin' auto-correct.
--

Drew
Expand Edited by drook July 9, 2016, 02:38:12 AM EDT
New excuse me sir, what is your name? BAM! :-) no worries, a good idea
always look out for number one and don't step in number two
New Well said.
I too am sorry for Mike's pain for the loss of his brother, especially in such a horrible way. One can argue about perfect gun laws, but I don't want to address that here.

Every case is different, but guns take away the chance to get help because they rarely fail.

I've posted Christen McGinnes's story before, I think.

Cheers,
Scott.
     Shootings of police officers in Dallas - (Another Scott) - (27)
         I was watching the news till midnight last night. - (a6l6e6x) - (26)
             where was the nra in 64? - (boxley) - (25)
                 Supporting passage of the Mulford Act -NT - (drook) - (24)
                     and all of these restrictions helped? how? -NT - (boxley) - (23)
                         Here's your options: - (pwhysall) - (22)
                             5.. none of the above will work as well as the other options -NT - (boxley) - (21)
                                 So do nothing? - (pwhysall) - (15)
                                     I can't speak for Box on this subject, only for me. - (mmoffitt) - (8)
                                         Take 9 minutes and watch this - (drook)
                                         I'm sorry for your loss. - (pwhysall) - (6)
                                             Thank you for the sympathy. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                 With you re ... A) the genocides ... B) lynchings - (Ashton)
                                             lets assume that all of your points were in place here - (boxley) - (2)
                                                 You're right, need to add one to the list - (drook) - (1)
                                                     excuse me sir, what is your name? BAM! :-) no worries, a good idea -NT - (boxley)
                                             Well said. - (Another Scott)
                                     does france have strict gun control ? How about Mexico? - (boxley) - (5)
                                         That's not the same thing and you know it. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                             yes I am ok, one little change in the law I would tweak tho - (boxley)
                                         Yeah, look at our ineffectual restrictions on grenade launchers - (rcareaga) - (2)
                                             correct, thats why the bad guys use preassure cooker bombs to do that. Note it doesnt stop them -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                 You're not even trying. -NT - (rcareaga)
                                 And yet taking Tommy Guns, etc., off the streets made the US safer in the '30s. How about that? - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                     repealing prohibition made it safer, not the gun act sheesh -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                                         Maybe it's both? Maybe doing something is better than doing nothing? - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                             Who was surprised? -NT - (drook) - (1)
                                                 At a guess: Only Americans. -NT - (CRConrad)

Better than an iron-shod boot to the head!
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