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New Manning and Padilla were driven insane by the system in question
and on purpose. The folks in that article got punished severely and no change occurred. Sorry, the entire edifice on this question is unalloyed bullshit. I can't fault Snowden one whit for not wanting to go through that.

"Regrettable" is carrying a shit-ton of water for you on this one.
New Different.
Manning was in the US Army. Rules are different there.

Padilla probably should have been tried in an appropriate civilian court.

On January 3, 2006, Padilla was transferred to a Miami, Florida, jail to face criminal conspiracy charges. On August 16, 2007, a federal jury found him guilty of conspiring to kill people in an overseas jihad, and to fund and support overseas terrorism. Government officials had earlier claimed Padilla was suspected of planning to build and explode a "dirty bomb" in the United States, a plot they had foiled, but he was never charged with this crime.

On January 22, 2008, Padilla was sentenced by Judge Marcia G. Cooke of the United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida to 17 years and four months in prison. His mother, Estela Ortega Lebron, was relieved. She announced that they would appeal the sentence: "You have to understand that the government was asking for 30 years to life sentence in prison. We have a chance to appeal, and in the appeal we're gonna do better."[1]

On September 9, 2014, the federal appeals court ruled that the first sentence was too lenient, and sentenced Padilla to 21 years.[2]


Padilla traveled to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq. On his return, he was arrested by U.S. Customs agents at Chicago's O'Hare International Airport on May 8, 2002, and held as a material witness on a warrant issued in the state of New York stemming from the September 11, 2001 attacks.

On June 9, 2002, two days before District Court Judge Michael Mukasey was to issue a ruling on the validity of continuing to hold Padilla under the material witness warrant, President George Bush issued an order to Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to detain Padilla as an "enemy combatant." Padilla was transferred to a military brig in Charleston, South Carolina without any notice to his attorney or family. The order "legally justified" the detention using the 2001 AUMF passed in the wake of September 11, 2001 (formally "The Authorization for Use of Military Force Joint Resolution" (Public Law 107-40)) and opined that a U.S. citizen detained on U.S. soil can be classified as an enemy combatant. (This opinion is based on the decision of the United States Supreme Court in the case of Ex parte Quirin, a case involving the detention of eight German spies operating in the United States while working for Nazi Germany during World War II).[17]

According to the text of the ensuing decision from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, Padilla's detention as an "enemy combatant" (pursuant to the President's order) was based on the following reasons:

* Padilla was "closely associated with al Qaeda," a designation for loosely knit insurgent groups sharing common ideals and tactics, "with which the United States is at war";
* He had engaged in "war-like acts, including conduct in preparation for acts of international terrorism";
* He had intelligence that could assist the United States in warding off future terrorist attacks; and
* He was a continuing threat to American security.


On February 22, 2007, at the competency hearing, Dr. Angela Hegarty, a psychiatrist hired by Padilla's defense, said that after 22 hours of examining Padilla, she believed that he was mentally unfit to stand trial.[37] She said that he exhibited “a facial tic, problems with social contact, lack of concentration and a form of Stockholm syndrome."[38] She diagnosed his condition as post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).[38][39] She told the court, "It's my opinion that he lacks the capacity to assist counsel. He has a great deal of difficulty talking about the current case before him."[39] In cross examination, federal prosecutor John Shipley noted that Padilla had a score of zero on Hegarty's post-traumatic stress disorder test and pointed out that this information was omitted in her final report. Hegarty said that this omission was an error on her part.[39] Another psychiatrist hired by the defense testified along the same lines. The Miami Herald reported that a "U.S. Bureau of Prisons psychiatrist who believes Padilla is fit to face trial and Defense Department officials—are expected to testify at the ongoing hearing before U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke."[39]

International airports are different than US soil. If he was arrested before he officially re-entered the US, then certain rules are different (I think - IANAL).

There's no doubt that Bush's people went too far with the "Unitary Executive" BS and their attempting to define anyplace in the universe as "The Battlefield". I don't know enough about Padilla's case (or Manning's) to accept anyone's account as gospel. But the US does have legitimate national security interests and legitimate needs to be able to collect intelligence. And the ability to protect that intelligence from unauthorized release.


New author of the account is on the local NPR affiliate
He mentions that the former head of the CIA has said of Snowden that he needs to be put to death by hanging "because electrocution is too good for him." Yeah, not a statement of official policy, but likely representative of the sentiments of a not insubstantial segment of the higher-ups in what we are pleased to call the "intelligence community." If Snowden had stuck around, do you suppose he would have remained at liberty? Would he not, in fact, have very likely been overcome with remorse at the enormity of his offense against our virtuous national purpose, and hanged himself in his cell, and does it not seem likely as well that any video record of his confinement would be accidentally erased? Had Snowden "faced the music," the tune might quite possibly have been the third movement from Chopin's Piano Sonata No. 2.

New Yeah, it's a slanted piece. It's from the Hudson Institute.
I don't agree with a lot of that piece, but I do with the excerpts I posted.

Lots of political hacks have held top positions at the CIA, FBI, etc., and age doesn't usually make them more moderate in expressing soundbites.

Snowden would have survived and would have gotten a fair trial. He likely would have been convicted, but he likely would have had the opportunity to plea to lesser charges as well (in exchange for coming clean about what he gave to whom and so forth).

How would him having an "accident" help in the overarching goal of finding out exactly what he took and what he did with it? It wouldn't. Snowden would have been treated very well in custody. And is still likely to be, once he comes home and is convicted (as I assume he will be, but who knows).

We're not going to see eye to eye on this, and I know I'm in the minority here in holding the views about Snowden that I do, but them's the breaks.

New Hheheeeeehaaahaaaaa
You ever been on the wrong side of the bars?

I've seen shit that would give you a heart attack. Actually, I had one according to the prison doctor. He didn't bother treating me, or even tell me, though, and only told my wife about it after she explained in great detail how she would be going after his medical license.

You need to review Peter's favorite fairy story about voting in fantasy world vs the real world, and apply it against your view of the judicial system.
     the fate of NSA whistleblowers - (rcareaga) - (32)
         Well, at least our 4th Estate repor...., er, ... never mind. -NT - (mmoffitt)
         Dunno. - (Another Scott) - (30)
             "Things they didn't like." - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                 Just because you don't like the oversight doesn't mean there wasn't any... - (Another Scott)
             Why the scare quotes? - (rcareaga) - (14)
                 There's too much history to dig through for a detailed answer. - (Another Scott)
                 Re: Why the scare quotes? -NT - (Ashton)
                 Re: Why the scare quotes? -NT - (Ashton)
                 Re: Why the scare quotes? -NT - (Ashton)
                 Have to pile on here, for recalling Ed Murrow's earnest comment to his staff - (Ashton) - (9)
                     It really is different, I think. - (Another Scott) - (8)
                         So you'd prosecute Ellsberg? -NT - (rcareaga) - (7)
                             Dunno, but probably not. - (Another Scott) - (6)
                                 "Snowden is no Ellsberg" - (rcareaga) - (5)
                                     Re: "Snowden is no Ellsberg" - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                         Different Time, ∆ ages/experience-levels of the protags ... different aims re a desired response - (Ashton) - (3)
                                             I'm not arguing that humans are perfectable or can make perfectable systems. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                                 Belatedly.. - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                     Thanks. We'll have to battle again when he's back in the USA. ;-) -NT - (Another Scott)
             Re: Underlings don't decide policy. - (a6l6e6x) - (12)
                 True, but ... - (Another Scott) - (11)
                     Manning and Padilla were driven insane by the system in question - (jake123) - (4)
                         Different. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                             author of the account is on the local NPR affiliate - (rcareaga) - (2)
                                 Yeah, it's a slanted piece. It's from the Hudson Institute. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                     Hheheeeeehaaahaaaaa - (crazy)
                     You should have been part of the defense team - (rcareaga) - (5)
                         Scott's only following orders! :) -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (3)
                             Ouch. -NT - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                 I wasn't likening you to the defendants - (rcareaga) - (1)
                                     "Democratic Traditions" - (Another Scott)
                         Saved me the trouble of mentioning that: "Aber es war doch Policy zu gassen die Juden!" - (CRConrad)

I seem to remember a rather Stupid rendition sometime back.
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