Yeah, if only Syria had not won the election, then the Banksters would have fixed everything... :-/

Post #403,292 by Another Scott 7/7/15 1:04:41 PM Reply	Yeah, if only Syria had not won the election, then the Banksters would have fixed everything... :-/
Post #403,304 by pwhysall 7/7/15 5:03:31 PM Reply	So what's your solution? Just forgive the debt, then let them get into this mess again in a decade or so, and then what?
Post #403,305 by drook 7/7/15 5:07:22 PM Reply	Excluded middle ... but you know that, right? How about forgive the debt, then make sure they don't get into this mess again? You know, like what we (allegedly) did for the banks. -- Drew
Post #403,308 by pwhysall 7/7/15 5:10:22 PM Reply	OK, how do you do that? You're just going to impose a functional economic system on them, yes? Did you miss the part where everything (and I mean everything) in their economic system is either fucked, corrupt or both?
Post #403,315 by drook 7/7/15 7:48:10 PM Reply	You broke it, you bought it If I had an easy answer I'd be applying for my Nobel already. But I know "make it substantially worse than it already is and still don't fix anything" isn't a great plan. -- Drew
Post #403,321 by Another Scott 7/8/15 2:18:33 AM Reply	This. The IMF report recommendations is a good start. Cheers, Scott.
Post #403,322 by pwhysall 7/8/15 2:55:45 AM Reply	Why not? You assume that that's the worst possible outcome. Perhaps things have to get substantially worse before the Greeks are moved to fix their problems and thus make things better.
Post #403,325 by drook 7/8/15 9:14:12 AM Reply	I don't know that 12-step programs work on social psychology "Hitting bottom" is generally talking about breaking addictions or chronic behaviors. I wouldn't assume that it applies equally to a society. An individual can be erratic but a psychological breakthrough only has to happen once. In a society different groups can have their own epiphanies, while other groups invent new pathologies on the fly. Do you really want to count on an entire country achieving enlightenment simultaneously? -- Drew
Post #403,329 by pwhysall 7/8/15 12:29:12 PM Reply	Or we could just keep right on tipping money into their economy ...which will keep them retiring at 50 on 80% of their final salaries. Yeah, let's do that.
Post #403,330 by mmoffitt 7/8/15 12:48:45 PM Reply	Oh, I see, you just make up convenient "facts." Greeks retire early. The figure of 53 years old as an average retirement age is being bandied about. So much so, that it is has become folk-fact. It originates from a lazy comment on the New York Times website. It was then repeated by Fox News and printed in other publications. Greek civil servants have the option to retire after 17.5 years of service, but this is on half benefits. The figure of 53 is a misinformed conflation of the number of people who choose to do this (in most cases to go on to different careers) and those who stay in public service until their full entitlement becomes available. Looking at Eurostat’s data from 2005 the average age of exit from the labour force in Greece (indicated in the graph below as EL for Ellas) was 61.7; higher than Germany, France or Italy and higher than the EU27 average. Since then Greece have had to raise the minimum age of retirement twice under bail-out conditions and so this figure is likely to rise further. http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/world-affairs/2012/05/exploding-myth-feckless-lazy-greeks
Post #403,331 by pwhysall 7/8/15 1:01:47 PM Reply	Whev Go you! You found an error that makes Greece kindasorta not look like a complete economic basket case! Technically correct, the best kind of correct! They're working SO hard and being SO honest and they're SO well-disciplined that this is all someone else's fault. Fuck that. Greece is in a bed of its own making - a debt built on endemic corruption, tax evasion, cronyism and all the other shit that goes along with it. As a nation, if you dodge €30B/year of taxes but spend the money anyway, you're gonna end up fucked. But yeah, it's obviously not Greece's fault and the EZ countries should just keep right on paying.
Post #403,342 by mmoffitt 7/8/15 4:22:58 PM Reply	Re: EZ countries should just keep right on paying. I'm not suggesting that. I'm only suggesting that the bankster controlled governments admit their part in making a bad situation (entirely the fault of the Greeks) immeasurably worse and the current "we must continue the punishment, it's the only way to save them" policy is horribly flawed.
Post #403,327 by mmoffitt 7/8/15 9:22:18 AM Reply	Right. It's a relatively new country after all. If they're going to survive for, say, as long as England has and ever contribute anything to the world, they'll figure these things out. But today they're so young. Left to their own devices they'd obviously disappear in a decade.

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