Lots of people speak English.

Post #399,111 by Another Scott 2/12/15 9:34:13 PM Reply	Lots of people speak English. How about all those Russian passports that Poroshenko was showing a couple of days ago? RT says it was performance art. On Mariupol, dunno... Kyiv Post: Adrian Rrllc Brent • 19 days ago "Today an offensive was launched on Mariupol. This will be the best possible monument to all our dead," Alexander Zakharchenko .... A few hours later...“Until now, we weren't conducting any operations outside Mariupol. We’re saving strength,” Alexander Zakharchenko Let the contradictions begin. It's a mess in Ukraine and lots of people are suffering. The suffering will end as soon as Putin stops his incitement and supporting of the rebels with arms, equipment, and soldiers. Not until then. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #399,124 by mmoffitt 2/13/15 8:44:52 AM Reply	It could end in a second with these words from Poroshenko. "The Ukraine will not join NATO."
Post #399,129 by Another Scott 2/13/15 1:38:51 PM Reply	Putin started this because of an EU agreement, not a proposed NATO agreement... NATO is a side issue. You know this. Putin wants Ukraine to be economically dependent on Russia. He doesn't want it being part of, or having strong relationships with, the EU. Too much gas goes through Ukraine for him to give up that leverage. There's no chance of Ukraine joining NATO soon, unless Putin continues to push, then all bets are off... My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #399,133 by a6l6e6x 2/13/15 4:31:27 PM Reply	Re: NATO is a side issue. You know this. It's not an issue at all except in Russian propaganda and the idiots that believe it. It's been long destined and accepted by almost all to be a buffer state. NATO wouldn't have Ukraine for any number of reasons. Russian "sensitivity" is one of those reasons. But NATO does not want Russia to consume Ukraine and move it's borders up against NATO countries either. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #399,142 by Another Scott 2/13/15 9:19:16 PM Reply	Yup. Thanks.
Post #399,179 by mmoffitt 2/15/15 6:06:10 PM Reply	I guess that all depends on whose propaganda you want to believe. I suppose we didn't assure Gorbachev of anything as well.
Post #399,181 by Another Scott 2/15/15 6:56:51 PM Reply	#397198 Everything is connected to a previous post... ;-) How about the issue of independent states being free to set their own policies and so forth? UN 25/2625 (October 24, 1970): Convinced that the strict observance by States of the obligation not to intervene in the affairs of any other State is an essential condition to ensure that nations live together in peace with one another, since the practice of any form of intervention not only violates the spirit and letter of the Charter, but also leads to the creation of situations which threaten international peace and security, Recalling the duty of States to refrain in their international relations from military, political, economic or any other form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of any State, Considering it essential that all States shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations, Considering it equally essential that all States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in accordance with the Charter, Reaffirming, in accordance with the Charter, the basic importance of sovereign equality and stressing that the purposes of the United Nations can be implemented only if States enjoy sovereign equality and comply fully with the requirements of this principle in their international relations, Does Putin's hurt feelings trump that, too? To be clear - yes, we (the USA) too often haven't stood up for those principles in the past. That doesn't mean Putin should be able to trash them now. Ukraine is an independent nation that should be supported while Putin tries to chop it up and impose his views on its government. Cheers, Scott.

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