BBC: Russians were operating the BUK that shot down MH17.

Post #394,264 by Another Scott 9/8/14 2:33:55 PM Reply	BBC: Russians were operating the BUK that shot down MH17. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29109398 Cheers, Scott.
Post #394,274 by a6l6e6x 9/8/14 4:58:24 PM Reply	Makes perfect sense. It takes too long to train a crew. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #394,276 by Another Scott 9/8/14 5:09:35 PM Reply	Yup. How anyone looking at the Wikipedia page of the system, and the complexity of the operations consoles, could think that some Joe off the street could run the thing is beyond me... :-( Cheers, Scott.
Post #394,287 by Ashton 9/8/14 9:33:39 PM Reply	just-WOW, Wikipedia! ... on to: discrimination: civilian/military. Imagine the time to try to assemble these data and pics ... starting from scratch, needing even to locate (still live) sources, cull the junk rehashes. [Last modification: TODAY.] Wonder.. what these super-Tanks weigh, their "cost" in any currency (all likely classified in any language.) The "10 year" expected life of latest missiles--without any re-test or hand-holding ... anyone who imagines that Russia-bloc dev/engr is automatically eclipsed by ours, probably hasn't an inkling of what's on their computers next week. Lastly ... what ever happened about that claimed IFF, (absent transponders)--supposedly added back in M-1 days? Did those Russkis rely upon it this fatal day/and it failed or did they/Can they! disable it? In fact--any clear evidence that this jet's transponder was/wasn't Working? Surely n boffins are ferreting madly. Sure looks as if Putin's multi-backstories are shredded; maybe he doesn't care? Then: megalomania confirmed. (Earlier I saw vid-clips of that (one? or two?) Buk /its carrier on local roads. Photoshop--not a chance. It ain't just verbal reports that place it/them in the Area.
Post #394,294 by mmoffitt 9/9/14 8:26:24 AM Reply	It's possible it was the Russians. I believe I've said that I thought it was brought down accidentally by a SAM. However, there are other "eye witnesses" that tell a different story. The below is from an earlier, now deleted, BBC story (Google helped by deleting from their cache). The inhabitants of the nearby villages are certain that they saw military aircraft in the sky shortly prior to the catastrophe. According to them, it actually was the jet fighters that brought down the Boeing. Eyewitness #1: There were two explosions in the air. And this is how it broke apart. And [the fragments] blew apart like this, to the sides. And when … Eyewitness #2: … And there was another aircraft, a military one, beside it. Everybody saw it. Eyewitness #1: Yes, yes. It was flying under it, because it could be seen. It was proceeding underneath, below the civilian one. Eyewitness #3: There were sounds of an explosion. But they were in the sky. They came from the sky. Then this plane made a sharp turn-around like this. It changed its trajectory and headed in that direction [indicating the direction with her hands]. Olga Ivshina, BBC: The Ukrainian government rejects this version of events. They believe that the Boeing was shot down using a missile from a “BUK” complex that came in from the direction of Russia. http://www.globalresearch.ca/deleted-bbc-report-ukrainian-fighter-jet-shot-down-mhi7-donetsk-eyewitnesses/5393631 Whom to believe? Who knows? I think it was probably the Russians, as you assert, but "eyewitness testimony" isn't proof to me. And the Western media ain't the greatest source of information about this either. They (or more precisely their owners) have a dog in this fight.
Post #394,298 by Another Scott 9/9/14 10:25:02 AM 9/9/14 10:33:23 AM Reply	Fog of war. Preliminary report. Lots of eyewitness accounts are wrong. Human brains aren't cameras, especially in stressful situations. The preliminary report (4.4 MB PDF) is out. [edit:] Dunno why the direct linky doesn't work. It's the first link ("new report") on this BBC page - http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29119024 Cheers, Scott. Edited by Another Scott Sept. 9, 2014, 10:33:23 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #394,300 by mmoffitt 9/9/14 10:30:12 AM Reply	Interesting. Can't get the linky to work.
Post #394,301 by Another Scott 9/9/14 10:33:33 AM Reply	See above. HTH.
Post #394,302 by mmoffitt 9/9/14 10:42:12 AM Reply	Thanks. I'm a little troubled by the reporting on this. On the one hand, we have investigators saying "we can't get there" at the same time as news crews are there. Like the Canadian investigator who said the cockpit area looked like it was shot with 30 cal rounds. I don't trust the Russian press and I don't trust the Western press. It just seems like both sides are issuing conflicting statements and that doesn't do anyone any good. This may be a case where we wait 10 years or more to find out what actually happened.

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