"Get on your knees" to the army.

Post #394,018 by mmoffitt 9/2/14 2:19:26 PM Reply	"Get on your knees" to the army. Real, honest to $DEITY democrats in Kiev. http://rt.com/news/184456-ukraine-parliament-shelling-criticism/
Post #394,021 by Another Scott 9/2/14 3:07:11 PM Reply	I thought your link was to this... Irina Dovgan. But then I saw the "RT" in the URL... :-/ Cheers, Scott.
Post #394,023 by mmoffitt 9/2/14 3:45:54 PM Reply	In the field of battle, both sides commit atrocities. One would expect more from the, cough, cough, wheez, elected officials in their dealings with one another. Nice redirection, though. When the heads of a Far Right (read: Neo-Nazi) government start admonishing their own politicians to "kneel before the Army" and blatantly quashes any complaints about the bombing of the nation's own civilians, it should send off alarm bells. You don't find rt a reputable source? Think the story is false? There's an embedded Youtube video that proves the accuracy of the report. Personally, I don't find Judith Miller's rag any more believable than fox news. The Neo-Nazis in Kiev declared war on their citizens living in the eastern region of the country. That qualified them to be rightly called "the enemy of Eastern Ukrainians." If Miller's rag is to be believed, she was at least guilty of aiding and abetting the enemy. She was arrested after posting pro-Ukrainian views on social networking sites and giving food and clean clothes to Ukrainian soldiers when they approached the outskirts of her town. I'm not suggesting that was justification for her reported treatment. I agree with the "Aleksandr Khodakovsky, the leader of the Vostok Battalion": “It doesn’t matter what she did,” Mr. Khodakovsky said in an interview. “She should not have been treated that way.” But let's try to avoid the Miller Rag spin of Cinderella being rescued. You make a decision to support the aggressors, you've got to know that isn't going to sit well with your neighbors.
Post #394,040 by Another Scott 9/2/14 7:30:01 PM Reply	I wouldn't trust RT to tell me the Sun rises in the East. E.g. here. Miller's been gone a long time. Has the RT management stopped taking orders from Putin yet? (Unlikely, since it is his baby, after all.) In 2013, a presidential decree issued by Vladimir Putin dissolved RIA Novosti and subsumed it into a new information agency called Rossiya Segodnya (directly translated as Russia Today).[88] According to a report on the RT website, the new news agency is "in no way related" to the news channel RT despite the similarity to RT's original name.[88] However on December 31, 2013, Margarita Simonyan, editor-in-chief of the RT news channel, was also appointed as editor-in-chief of the new news agency while maintaining her duties for the television network.[89] Oh, and there's Alex's helpfully provided linky, also too. RT can't be trusted. Even in the worst days of the run-up of the Iraq war, contrary voices were in the Times and the Washington Post. You won't find anything approaching that at RT. You know this. Yes, atrocities happen on both sides in wars. Civilians always get trampled. It's always a disaster for people in the middle. I'm not defending any particular action by Ukraine's military. The Ukrainian woman was a civilian. There is no excuse, none, for the treatment she received. Also, the captured Ukrainian soldiers that were paraded through the streets was inexcusable. Civilized militaries don't do that. Militaries that want to drum up nationalism and jingoism, do. Without Putin's support and his military invasion of Ukraine, the fighting in eastern Ukraine wouldn't have started in the first place, and it wouldn't be continuing now. The blood is (nearly) all on Putin's hands. I've been bored by arguments about the "Neo-Nazis" and "fascists" in Kiev for quite a while. There is a guy, "Bob in Portland", on Balloon-Juice who throws that up almost every time Ukraine comes up. It's pointless to argue with him. It's like trying to argue about the impossibility of Noah's ark - without an agreed basis for discussion, it's pointless to imagine that minds will be changed. I learned that long ago. Doesn't mean I won't push-back occasionally. ;-) FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #394,078 by a6l6e6x 9/3/14 9:11:09 PM Reply	No wonder you're confused. Reading a totally unreliable, i.e. worthless source. Russian propaganda! Find me this story on RT: The Guardian version. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #394,089 by mmoffitt 9/4/14 9:00:09 AM Reply	Not much mention, I'll grant. Now Kiev’s forces are reinforcing their defenses in the city of Mariupol, in southeastern Ukraine. ... According to the militia, Kiev’s forces were leaving Novoazovsk overnight in the direction of the southeastern city of Mariupol, in the Donetsk Region. http://rt.com/news/183368-ukraine-novoazovsk-kiev-troops/ But the story I posted had an embedded link to a video where you could confirm with your own eyes and ears what happened. I'll take video over reporting from either side. ;0)
Post #394,096 by a6l6e6x 9/4/14 4:48:05 PM Reply	Did you get to see the Ukranian soldiers being marched throught streets.. so they could be humiliated and battered by the locals? In violation of the Geneva Conventions, by the way. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #394,116 by mmoffitt 9/5/14 10:57:11 AM Reply	Geneva Conventions? So there's legitimacy to Донецкая народная республика? Actually, until you posted that, I had heard a report of it but then did look up the video. It is disgusting. Not entirely unpredictable, but disgusting nonetheless. I sincerely wish both sides would stop shooting and find a peaceful solution. I recall about half of my classmates in Kiev were Russians. We, of course, were children and immune to the hatred of our elders. My best friends then were Sasha (Russian), Borya (Ukrainian), Artur (Ukrainian) and Alexei (Russian). There were others, of course, and we played football (not our abortion of a game, the real one) every single day after school in front of the Hotel Europe. I think about those kids today and am horrified that they (or their children) might be trying to kill each other.

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