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New He wouldn't because he can't
There *are no* long-term RCTs on human subjects in the nutrition field. There almost can't be. And short-term trials don't find the feedback mechanisms.

The only good science to come out of "Supersize Me" was toward the end of the experiment when his doctor said he was starting to adapt to the diet. Even the clearest effect demonstrated at 2 weeks won't last forever.
--

Drew
New We'll see. I sent him a note. ;-)
New Check your Grandma e-mail. :-)
New BOGGLE!
Weight is determined by behavior and psychology, and nutrients do not matter.

... and ...
Weight gain does not depend on particular food components but on taste, convenience, price, availability etc.

I just ... I mean ...

Okay, going to write this one up, too. He has a MASSIVE assumption built in to his thinking that makes it impossible for him to evaluate the findings objectively.
--

Drew
Expand Edited by drook May 30, 2014, 10:32:30 AM EDT
Expand Edited by drook May 30, 2014, 10:41:02 AM EDT
New Read the NEJM editorial before going nuclear.
That note to me was very conversational and he's not a native English speaker. His editorial is much more careful in the discussion.

(I sure hope I didn't help kick a hornets's nest in this...)

Cheers,
Scott.
New I did. It's worse.
--

Drew
New Posted my analysis
http://willpowerisforfatpeople.com/good-science-questions-everything-not-just-the-parts-you-dont-like/

I had three or four other specific issues, but decided to focus on the one for this post.
--

Drew
New mmmmm, fried cheese wraps
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep
New Lightweight
Today I fried up 2 onions, well chopped.
Then I fried up 2 steak sandwich portions (real, not formed).
Then I mixed in 2 scrambled eggs.
Then I layered on 2 pieces of crap cheese.

I gained 20 pounds in jail, and another 15 since I've been out. I was able to gain because I made a deal with a cancer guy who got extra portions to trade his food for my coffee that I bought from the commissary. Before that, I went to bed hungry for a month.

I figure when I go back my food will be severely limited, so I want the padding to live off of. If I end up not going back, then it's atkins for me again.
New Need to make some chupaquesos
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2003-09-06

I'm in the middle of re-reading the whole archive. Should be done sometime next week.
--

Drew
New I just got done a few weeks ago.
--
greg@gregfolkert.net
"No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." --Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
New Thanks.
I'm not convinced though. :-)

Yes, there's a lot of stuff in his editorial that is unstated, but there's some science to back it up. For example:

The trial by Sacks et al. lasted longer than most, the dropout rate was low, treatment was intensive, and compliance was assessed with objective biomarkers. 1 Unfortunately, the dietary goals were only partly achieved. Protein intake was intended to differ by 10% of energy between the high-protein-diet group and the average-protein-diet group, but the actual difference, as assessed by the measurement of urinary nitrogen excretion, was 1 to 2% of energy (according to my calculations, which were based on a diet that provided 1700 kcal per day). Extreme carbohydrate intakes also proved hard to achieve. When fat is replaced isocalorically by carbohydrate, high-density lipo-protein (HDL) cholesterol decreases in a predictable fashion. 3 The authors used the difference in the change in HDL cholesterol levels between the lowest- and highest-carbohydrate groups to calculate the difference in carbohydrate content between those diets. That difference turned out to be 6% of energy instead of the planned 30%.


As I read that, he's saying that the differences in the diets, as measured by chemical markers rather than reported intake, were too small to see if the diet was changed as intended.

Now maybe there are some problems with the calculations, maybe. I dunno. See the Sachs paper for more details. (Linky below.)

He strikes me as saying things very close to what you're saying. We all know there are diets that hardly have any meat or fat (pre-industrial China, India, etc.), and there are diets that hardly have any carbs or vegetables (Inuits, maybe some Pacific islanders that live on fish), etc. I think that's what he's referring to when he says that (roughly) "weight gain does not depend on the kind of calories". Obesity isn't common in most of those pre-industrial communities, so it can't be the type of calories that is the only thing that matters. And we all know there are problems with diet studies because, as he explicitly says, it's impossible for them to be "double-blind", among other things.

But it's also the case, based on what happens in most people like those in the study (average age early 50s, average BMI 33, 33% having hypertension, etc.), that eating saturated fats raises LDL. Does it happen to everyone? Of course not. We all agree that many, many things go on in the body that aren't terribly well understood. And t seems likely to me that the effect of diet changes as we age. (E.g. drugs metabolize differently in the elderly, why wouldn't food?)

Also, remember the Editorial is mainly a bit of background and an introduction to Sacks' paper. That paper is here - http://www.seriecientifica.org/sites/default/files/sacksfmetal_-_comparison_of_weight-loss_diets_with_different_compositions_0.pdf (15 page .PDF). It's been cited 849 times - a monstrous number. (That indicates people in the field think it is important, but not necessarily the last word of course.)

My $0.02, FWIW. :-)

Cheers,
Scott.
(Who is interested to see how his blood results will have changed at his next checkup (in a few months).)
     NutritionAction May cover story on fats. - (Another Scott) - (21)
         Consider the source - (drook) - (20)
             I found it. - (Another Scott) - (19)
                 Exactly as I thought - (drook) - (3)
                     Frustrating - (drook) - (2)
                         Yeah. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                             I don't want to do his homework for him - (drook)
                 Finally wrote it up - (drook) - (14)
                     Thanks. - (Another Scott) - (12)
                         He wouldn't because he can't - (drook) - (11)
                             We'll see. I sent him a note. ;-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                             Check your Grandma e-mail. :-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (9)
                                 BOGGLE! - (drook) - (8)
                                     Read the NEJM editorial before going nuclear. - (Another Scott) - (7)
                                         I did. It's worse. -NT - (drook) - (6)
                                             Posted my analysis - (drook) - (5)
                                                 mmmmm, fried cheese wraps -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                                                     Lightweight - (crazy)
                                                     Need to make some chupaquesos - (drook) - (1)
                                                         I just got done a few weeks ago. -NT - (folkert)
                                                 Thanks. - (Another Scott)
                     drook, I want you on my jury.. - (Ashton)

The sweeter the blood is, the fatter the fleas.
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