IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New And Salieri got a bad rap.
It started during his lifetime, and he declared on his deathbed "I did not kill Mozart". It is very certain he had no hand in Mozart's death, but the world needs a villain.

Not only did Salieri try to help Mozart with his career (he had better political connections) he colaborated with Mozart on a number of projects, and helped take care of Mozart's kids after his death.

He was a laid back sort of guy, and the only composition teacher in Vienna who could put up with the young Beethoven - who declared he learned far more from Salieri than all his other teachers combined (which included Hayden).

A number of his pieces have been played on KUSC recently, and they are quite good.

New There is a heap of counterpoint, though
Here's one with a hint of provenance (See: 'Court Violinist'.)
http://answers.yahoo...0306232916AAR42S9

The Beethoven anecdote--if that Has provenance--surely describes a Reputation, earned or gossip (?) in-the-day.

KDFC (now world-wide via web, too) has filled the SF-area vacuum of Classical over n-years: a Shame which the SF Movers/Shakes shall, deservedly
--remain twitted-on indefinitely (if not Tweeted? maybe that too.)
And concur re some recent auditions of Salieri's work, several to date on KDFC.

A disturbing aspect of the movie is: particularly in the rollicking ruckus where M. plays the piano--while lying on his back! making fart jokes about Salieri
--is the savagely excessive non-humour of this really 'bully-boy' grade skit.
While I am ignorant of much of Mozart's bio(s), I prefer to believe that his evocation of such aetherial beauty could Not co-exist with such arrant viciousness.
[Is there extant any bio which could establish to a near-certainty--whether indeed, M. possessed (was-possessed-of) such a Mean-streak -??- along with the unarguable-Talent?

(That's the trouble with fiction and its writers--you can go beyond the pale because: Schadenfreude.
Which may be more addictive than Heroin?)
Sells books a lot, too. Is Salieri's obloquy Earned? (whatever opinions of his musical abilities) or a huge exaggeration of hearsay/local loaded-gossip.

Ed: PS--since the polarization re the real-Salieri is now a meme, I mistrust It All until.. something resembling a chain-of-evidence surfaces.
WIll try for neutrality while waiting. The mettle of his composing is, of course Another matter.
Expand Edited by Ashton Jan. 18, 2014, 06:26:58 PM EST
New Beethoven, during his lifetime . . .
. . made no secret of his admiration for Salieri. Counter stories seem a bit strained in the face of the facts - and his studies with Salieri were after Mozart's death, so that thing of his slamming the door on "Mozart's killer" is patently false.

But the stories live on and on. For instance, the story of Marie Antoinette saying "Let them eat cake". After the Revolution, this was lifted from a novel written long before her adulthood, and falsely attributed to her - as an attempt to justify having beheaded her. This was difficult to justify, particularly since she had actually made statements sympathetic to the peasants.

In any case, top teachers are given short shrift by history. For instance, Rimsky-Korsakov, who taught three of the five greatest orchestrators of all time, Respghi, Stravinsky and - well - Rimsky-Korsakov (he was self taught - and had no formal training or "book learnen" until after he was appointed professor of composition and orchestration at the St. Petersburg Conservatory).

It did piss him off a bit that several of his students, who learned everything they knew from him, worshiped Tchaikovsky (Stravinsky was one of them).

Jim Svejda, lead announcer at KUSC, was always dismissive of Rimsky-Korsakov. After all, how could a Navy officer and civil servant, who was highly successful, respected, fiscally stable, happy, non-suicidal, and in a lifelong marriage to a WOMAN for crissake, be a great artist?

But, he's come around a bit recently. Lately when he plays Shaharazad, part of his announcement is "This is the cloth from which Stravinsky's triumphs were cut".

Another of his favorite targets has been one of history's greatest teachers of music to children, Karl Orff. Of course, Jim read a book that indicated Orff might have been a Nazi sympathizer, and Svejda HATES Nazis. The author of that book has since stated he no longer believes that - but, again, the corrections and retractions are ignored if the initial version said what people wanted to believe.

But even there the cracks may be showing. Orff's Carmina Burana has always been the most requested piece of music on KUSC. Before putting it on, Svejda would always ridicule it roundly.

A couple of months ago, he announced it. Then there was some silence - after which he said, "I LOVE this piece! There, I've said it and I'm glad!" - and I'm not going to let him forget that.

Jim's an opinionated bassard, but I can't complain about that - I'm an opinionated bassard myself - but I can complain about his mistakes.



New All-in-all it is bloody-Annoying! (all the faux-tales..)
that, (especially re any contemporary: well aware of contradictory gossip-duels du jour)
it is now 222 years and 44 days after Wolfie's denouement, and we see that
Nobody! then had set about to do any basic sleuthing, in a methodical manner--this, even if social/political conditions rendered it risky to publish for a time.
Obviously all later generations would want to know as much truthiness as could be collected, given the importance of this one extraordinary composer.

But then, seemingly folks of 1791 were as utterly disdainful of 'leavings' for all next generations as are the Me-Me-Me sleepwalkers du jour
(hardly-yet much concerned.. even about IF there shall be(?) many 'generations' next.)

So we are left with archeological forensics of this or some next technocracy, ever for there to be closure.
(Or 'cloture'?) :-/
Good luck even finding the right mass-grave. Maybe though, there is a strand of Wolfgang's hair in a museum artifact not completely scrubbed?
Just do DNA on all the remains. I'll contribute a few $USD.

(Yes, the anecdote alleged about Ludwig/Salieri at the door must be fabricated--unless.. he possessed/thought he possessed
evidence of some smoking scopolamine-HBr ampoule found in Salieri's hash-box.)
We have proven to spawn periodically nasty bastards, such that--almost no plot is too dastardly to think possible,
And 143 years later: descendants in that area brought us the Nazis.

(When I was in Salzburg, near the Mozarteum, heard trumpet practicing. A window at sidewalk level revealed someone playing a keyed (rotary-valve!) trumpet.
I was kneeling down chatting; he handed through the window his horn--I tried it out. H. informed me later that I was photographed in that unusual concert-position.) Fun.

I wanna Know: WHO's LYING! That's all..



Ed: oTyp
Expand Edited by Ashton Jan. 19, 2014, 01:00:29 AM EST
New Umm . . . about that "mass grave".
The term was "common grave". That meant it was not where nobles and royalty were buried. Had he taken better care of himself and lived a bit longer he might have rated an upgrade on that.

It is true that only the gravediggers were at his graveside. That was proper procedure at the time. Paleo-meteorologists have studied this in great detail, and have shown with great confidence that the wind was blowing very strong that day - similar to our Santa Anas here in Los Angeles.

Under those circumstances, especially considering the fancy dress of the time, the funeral party stayed inside where the ceremony was held, and only the gravediggers went out with the casket.

All this stuff and a lot more has been covered over the years in the Archeology magazines I subscribe to, and the Smithsonian magazine.

Yes, exact cause of death is still uncertain. He had a bunch of stuff going on, any one of which could have killed him, but it was probably several of them - answers are seldom as simple as some might desire.
New Even so, you are better informed than I
..in the sketchy factoids that have been reported (hardly 'documented', alas.)
What a bunch of ungrateful bastards!--these contemporaries of such a One.
No 'informed' speculation At All? in. the. event? Weird.

I guess "you had to be There" {sigh}
We hear that the producer of Amadeus 'Loved Mozart'. (Better than indifference, probably--it was no documentary.)
But casts no light on what research went into staying nearly? at-all? 'factual' about his end.
Looks pretty bleak for any closure: lots of years ... no magically discovered Light cast.
Why expect that, then: tomorrow?

Pity. ;-/
New It's it uncouth to quote yourself?
I've said this before about Jesus. I'd say it applies to Mozart, too:

The most powerful man in the world was assassinated in broad daylight, in front of thousands of witnesses, caught on film, and just 50 years later we can't agree on what happened. Do we really think we're going to prove who did what to whom over two centuries ago?

(Substitute "millennia" for Jesus.)
--

Drew
New Sadly-so.. but dunnit-still Piss Ya Off? (anyway)
s'OK to quote-self: if it's been Certified by the GRR/LRPD Selection Committee.. and maybe a few alternatives,
like ... npr Says You!

;^>

As to poor J.C.: the Man said some profound things, (even sans the metaphysical) ... some recycled/some original:
Then 2K years of the serial-telephone-game got us where we are today.

I am patient. I await Wolfgang's Rising from the Grave WITH HIS HARPSICHORD! (in-tune.)
(This event would stifle at least a Trillion no-longer-relevant Words, too: Win/Win)



..but I Never SAID AshtoKnoppix, dammit!
New Harpsichord? Didn't he play the pianoforte?
I don't recall a single harpsichord piece by Mozart.
New Didn't he play the pianoforte? ... That, too:
https://www.youtube....tch?v=cDjaf8zUOtY
http://www.last.fm/m...d+&+K+381+&+K+358

(There's more.)
Dunno what his personal pref. was, but as composer he obviously had to know all the instruments, though not play each 'superbly'.
(But cannot imagine his harpsichord technique to have been other than virtuoso-grade.)


We'll See:
When He Comes Back!!!!ONE11
     SC Christian School 4th grade Science test - (Ashton) - (21)
         Wow. - (mmoffitt) - (20)
             Have friends in Asheville - (Ashton) - (19)
                 The Outer Banks are a weird place - (drook)
                 Asheville's where my daughter is. - (mmoffitt) - (17)
                     New York, for one -NT - (drook) - (4)
                         Okay, but New York's not in the South. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                             yeah, south floriduh doesn't count -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                 South Florida is Yankee and Cuba land. - (a6l6e6x)
                         Ohio for another. -NT - (folkert)
                     "Somewhat Bohemian" . - (Andrew Grygus) - (11)
                         Indeed, that last.. While 'Amadeus' was largely fiction - (Ashton) - (10)
                             And Salieri got a bad rap. - (Andrew Grygus) - (9)
                                 There is a heap of counterpoint, though - (Ashton) - (8)
                                     Beethoven, during his lifetime . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (7)
                                         All-in-all it is bloody-Annoying! (all the faux-tales..) - (Ashton) - (6)
                                             Umm . . . about that "mass grave". - (Andrew Grygus) - (5)
                                                 Even so, you are better informed than I - (Ashton) - (4)
                                                     It's it uncouth to quote yourself? - (drook) - (3)
                                                         Sadly-so.. but dunnit-still Piss Ya Off? (anyway) - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                             Harpsichord? Didn't he play the pianoforte? - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                                                 Didn't he play the pianoforte? ... That, too: - (Ashton)

The fourth-worst poetry in the known Universe.
138 ms