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New Re: "as mind numbingly incomprehensible as ours plus VAT"?
Christian,
You make a good point and I stand excoriated and dejected by your superior intellect (how's that for some ass kissin'?). There are, in the good old USA, state sales taxes. inheritance taxes, property taxes, local sales taxes, wheel taxes, FICA, Medicare, gasoline, phone surtaxes, gas and electric surtaxes, etc... and they are mind numbingly incomprehensible when one looks around and sees the human condition is not much improved (potholes still aren't filled, cheeldrun still underperform on tests, etc...) That said, this is exactly the same thing happening in Great Britain PLUS they have a VAT (a national tax) which we far superior and exceptional Americans still do not have. Yet.

So in essence and more to directly answering your question - the VAT currently is over and above the complexities of the American system.
Just a few pedantic thoughts,

Dan
New Nope, you're still not getting it.
Dan Reck-lessly offers:"That said, this is exactly the same thing happening in Great Britain PLUS they have a VAT (a national tax) which we far superior and exceptional Americans still do not have. Yet."

Uh, no. They don't, AFAIK, have any "sales tax" apart from the VAT, but you yourself say that you do: "state sales taxes ... local sales taxes ... gasoline, phone surtaxes, gas and electric surtaxes".

So it still seems it's the American system that has the same thing they do in Great Britain, PLUS several different varieties of sales- and surtaxes; it's the American system that is "mind numbingly incomprehensible" over and above the complexities of the British one, not the other way around as you're trying to make it out.

If you want to be pedantic, it's usually wise to begin by making sure you're _right_ first.
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New Quite right.
New So, in essence, you are Pete by proxy
I see how you Europeans stick together now. Very interesting. I see what's happening here now. I call Pete out and he sends you in to out pedant me. Well, mister, I can right shift this thread with the very best of them. The VAT is indeed just like a sales tax but it is not CALLED a sales tax and a sales tax (although predominately a state and not federally imposed item) is like a VAT but not CALLED one then we both are right and we both are wrong. Game, set, and match for us both. That should boost each of our respective self esteems - a true win-win. Who said that exceptionalism can't be humble?

Your turn to tell me that I am still wrong because I said it was a sales tax PLUS a VAT which is technically true but I will deflect the subject over and over until you are too tired to continue. Just letting you know in advance.

Your turn.

Sidebar - I haven't been in a Flame quarantine in quite a few years. Should we save that for when we are really pissed or just start now? I mean, I'm sure I cannot live up to your standards, but I have been learning a few things now that I have a teenager in the house.
Just a few thoughts,

Dan
New naw, save that for the good stuff
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
New Mine's only ten, but he's precocious.
So I might have learned nearly as much as you.

But, the spin-off-a-thread functionality from the old Z isn't here, so I can't be bothered.
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New Now then, Dan--may I call you 'Dan', Dan?
If this dry-run on florid amateur forensic fisticuffs is aborted, for a bit:

I await your Review of the mentioned tomes: these shall require of you authentic attention to discursive, oft [actually!-] subtle means of getting across
--the essence of various zeitgeists.. too-many-words?--OK: telling How it Was, so you can feel it.
(Will that do?)
I have supposed.. that you will deem the time invested as Worth-it; I may be wrong. Advance-apology could be an ez-out--but I won't give that.
Fact is, within this doomed anti-culture of rampant diseasedvulture-capitalism: damn few with families and oodles of techno-toys as diversions:
Will read lengthy tomes (other than escape-type stories)==they. no. time. Maybe you, too. Oh well.

Oh, and:
iffen ya means to inject Annie-Randish stuff about Econ and all who sail in that miserable pseudo-nonscience all over the place,
may I direct your attention to my post today in the Money/Mammon forum?
(It seems that holy-Science has finally turned a spotlight onto those who Believe-in Certain-knowledge of what a Debt/GDP Ratio (is that a koan?)
MUST BE and your subtext-messages recently have strongly implied that you are a Card-carrying
Acolyte of all Econ-mumbo-jumbo du jour/du yester-jour.

(I Hope Not, 'cause I'd like to continue to believe that you aren't a self-styled Gnostic on these evanescent/unfathomable intentionalyl-obscurant 'matters'..
of tryin to link Econ-megalo-theories to anything! in Real Life.)
Say It Ain't So, Dan! Hey Man!--it's bogus-think: stuff for anal retentive number freaks, as far from wisdom as a one can <-----> get.
(Of course I have the Proofs: Google Gödel, then Korzybski, Stuart Chase and maybe Geo. Carlin. 'that enough?)

Ta, you smug polysyllabic antidisestablismentarian-outlier/avec coprophagic-grin

er, ;^>
(iI do regret that we had that just-one fone-con wherein the demons could be compared.. eons ago. But now yer Baaack, sorta?)
New Go right ahead and call him "Milkman Dan".
New Always going for the Meta aren't you
Nah Ash, just having a little fun with my old pal Christian (still can't get over "that" irony) and Pete. You know me, I just love to point out how freaking convoluted all dichotomies have become like republican <= democrat, rancid milk is better than rotten cheese, etc

http://en.wikipedia....the_United_States
versus
http://en.wikipedia....he_United_Kingdom

It is almost as much fun as pointing out how ignorant it is to debate how to spend money you don't have... :-O

I think the word for what I do is agitate or tweak (not to be confused with Twerk, you know). You do the same thing, just a bit more obtuse and hard to pin down.

In my own subtle way, I was merely pointing out that George Harrison and Alvin Lee really loved the British Tax codes much better than America's... So much for subtlety.
Just a few thoughts,

Dan
New No, you just make an arse of yourself.
And it gets boring quicker all the time, the older I get.

That's why I can't really be bothered all that much any more.

So have fun gibbering away to yourself. Or try the BOx?
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New sure, here crc, have some grapes
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
New Naah, grapes are far too sweet...
...for a sour old fart like me.
--
Christian R. Conrad
Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi

(Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
New Re: European
Are you sure you don't mean "You're a peon?" Or perhaps even "You're a pee on?" :)

And I'm saying that having been born in Europe.

Alex

American by choice.
     American Healthcare - It is to laugh - (pwhysall) - (61)
         Yeah. They should get off our lawn. -NT - (CRConrad)
         Yeah, we're stupid. - (mmoffitt) - (19)
             TWICE! -NT - (folkert)
             Whatever gets you through the paperwork - (pwhysall) - (17)
                 so how do you know what the government is taking? - (boxley) - (9)
                     It's on my payslip every month. - (pwhysall) - (8)
                         Remember... - (folkert) - (2)
                             Damn Tea Party - (danreck) - (1)
                                 Bitter Tea... more like. -NT - (folkert)
                         do they break it down at all or is it just a single sum? - (boxley) - (4)
                             What is this thing you earth people call - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                 Does 30% on 62K sound about right? - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                     Wouldn't be a million miles out. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                         Interesting. - (mmoffitt)
                 You also forgot to mention your Queen. - (mmoffitt) - (6)
                     Nuh-uh. - (pwhysall) - (5)
                         But not greatly simplifying things. ;0) -NT - (mmoffitt)
                         We've fought lots of wars. Which one are you referring to? -NT - (drook) - (3)
                             Does it really matter which one? -NT - (folkert) - (1)
                                 (Right answer.) -NT - (Ashton)
                             Or, IOW: Most of them. -NT - (CRConrad)
         You got some splainin' to do Petey - (danreck) - (37)
             "as mind numbingly incomprehensible as ours plus VAT"? - (CRConrad) - (29)
                 Yup. - (Another Scott) - (15)
                     Secretly? Not quite the right word there. -NT - (drook)
                     so you are supporting the fairtax or still demagogueing it? - (boxley) - (13)
                         Heh. - (Another Scott) - (12)
                             support a VAT of 23% but not a sales tax of 23% got it :-) -NT - (boxley) - (11)
                                 The difference between VAT and sales tax. - (Another Scott) - (10)
                                     We need to tax unearned income at the same rate as earned. - (mmoffitt) - (6)
                                         Agreed. -NT - (Another Scott)
                                         Damned Skippy! -NT - (folkert)
                                         agreed, it's all earned -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                                             There you Go Again with the snide self-cancelling phrases - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                 Re: There you Go Again with the snide self-cancelling phrase - (boxley) - (1)
                                                     There's Shrub-grade mechanical-stubbornness.. for All t'see. -NT - (Ashton)
                                     oh, you mean like this? - (boxley) - (2)
                                         That's not how it works, do your homework -NT - (drook) - (1)
                                             Why... when you will gladly will... - (folkert)
                 Re: "as mind numbingly incomprehensible as ours plus VAT"? - (danreck) - (12)
                     Nope, you're still not getting it. - (CRConrad) - (11)
                         Quite right. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                         So, in essence, you are Pete by proxy - (danreck) - (9)
                             naw, save that for the good stuff -NT - (boxley)
                             Mine's only ten, but he's precocious. - (CRConrad)
                             Now then, Dan--may I call you 'Dan', Dan? - (Ashton) - (5)
                                 Go right ahead and call him "Milkman Dan". -NT - (CRConrad)
                                 Always going for the Meta aren't you - (danreck) - (3)
                                     No, you just make an arse of yourself. - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                         sure, here crc, have some grapes -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                             Naah, grapes are far too sweet... - (CRConrad)
                             Re: European - (a6l6e6x)
             Naw, it's dirt simple - (pwhysall) - (6)
                 That's what I tried to explain to him, but he either refused - (CRConrad) - (5)
                     It's just so very very sad... - (jake123) - (4)
                         getting old, not as nimble -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                             Is that your excuse then? - (folkert) - (2)
                                 Gentle, now... - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                     Yeah yeah... - (folkert)
         But they love filthy socialism - (warmachine) - (1)
             Well, we've got the world's largest per-capita Gun supply.. - (Ashton)

An experiment in Boredom Control run by the Illuminati.
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