That thing about how Little Big Adi, had he been left to...

Post #378,523 by CRConrad 7/26/13 10:09:21 PM Reply	That thing about how Little Big Adi, had he been left to... ...his own devices more than he actually was -- as I was quite vividly speculating about -- might have killed off even more of your kith and kin than he actually did, that's what's with you guys. :-( Damn, I HATE this German Guilt Komplex that, yes, affects even those of us whose parents weren't old enough to fight in that war. One DOES, it seems, if one was raised in a normal-by-European-1970's-norms household, desperately want to feel some pride in one's national heritage, even though that heritage can be tainted worse than the very soil at Ground Zero, Chernobyl. But every German having attained or already occupied a state of consciousness after, at the very latest, May 8th, 1945, is denied that pleasure at least in its purest and most unadulterated form. What one can rejoice in is, on the one hand, "But all those peaceful achievements; Neuschwanstein, Beethoven, Bach...!" -- Yeah, but notice how that began with a "but"? Or, on the other hand the nutcase option: "Damn, they lost, too bad" -- the Neo-/Old Nazi route -- which, however coolest their uniforms admittedly were, I'm trying to avoid, thankyouverymuch. Which leaves, on the gripping hand, (the impossibility of) trying to reconcile relief that they didn't win with pride that they almost did: "Whew, good thing they got whipped in the end, but dang, how close they came to winning!". (And howevermuch you try to take pride in the fact that no such small people ever came as close to beating the whole rest of the world, the Romans and the Mongols, together with who knows how many peoples going back to at least the Hyksos, stand there laughing you in the face.) Which all, I think, is what's behind the sales success of Alternate History ranging from P. K. Dick over, whossname, Philip Pullman?, to Harry Turtledove. But those authors all have trouble coming up with plausible explanations why not only Onkel Adolf but, much more importantly, our grandfathers and grandmothers and all our grand-uncles and grand-aunts and great-grandfathers and great-grandmothers and so fucking on and on would have stopped killing off you guys before there was nobody left to found Israel. :-( Fuck, I shouldn't be posting these ramblings after finishing off the overwhelming majority of a Â 1:75 liter bottle of Portuguese Rosé (and half of a bottle of red before that, with dinner), after Anki falls asleep from less than two glasses of it. But that'sh the way it ish. (And yeah, the Literature Nobel for Churchill, how ridiculous is that? But OTOH, that was a more honest age: Back then, they apparently felt bound by the name of the Peace Prize not to give it as a War Prize, as it pretty foreseeably turned out to be in Obama's case.) -- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi (Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
Post #378,533 by a6l6e6x 7/26/13 11:41:28 PM Reply	Re: might have killed off even more of your kith and kin That would have been easy in any case. Who would want to fight for a Communist state? Eventually the Communists were talking about the Motherland instead. But, that fooled no one with a brain. Before the Germans overran the area we were in (Southern Ukraine just North of Crimea), at the point of a gun, my father was "drafted" into the Red Army. No boots, no uniforms, marching around with a stick instead of a rifle, and throwing rocks instead of grenades for practice. The idea was to pick up a rifle at the front from a wounded or dead fellow "soldier". In back of the front line would be enforcers that would execute you on the spot if you turned back. Before any action, my father managed to escape, or technically become a deserter. One more reason to eventually retreat West ahead of the German retreat. Alex
Post #378,534 by Ashton 7/27/13 2:23:19 AM Reply	Being nasty to members of other tribes-- I've pondered that dilemma; that is, attempted to put self as German-born, living out the runaway inflation of the Wiemar predicament Â then espying a Strange Guy who--whatever else is true--could mesmerize a crowd/spin rhetoric which appealed not only to innate -even primitive- 'buttons-to-be pushed', and did so within a population (myself included) genuinely at poverty level [except the inevitable plutocrats, natch.] But then also created a framework around which to hang all his fulminations, one logically connected and compelling but above all: perfectly tailored to build on the rampant discontent. (This re the initial seductions, since studied well beyond TMI.) Then, flash-forward.. to yours (and millions') predicament: I see two aspects to this; one is the plight of those innocent (by time of birth and other qualifiers) of the seduction, the huge adventure (!!) and then horrible outcome of surrendering absolute-Power to the Strange Guy. That situation can be analyzed-to-death by all the academic methods, Psych, Philosophy and so on. But second is the attitude of onlookers (those within the Adventure but never giving allegiance to the perpetrators) and all the rest of external peoples. I think.. that a frequent ingredient of the withholding of empathy? compassion? by the Auslanders(?) is connected with the reputation of the German tribe: that of The Arts/Bach et al, meticulous creation of state-of-art machines and other, related cerebral qualities; lastly and maybe especially: the high education level of the population. aka How Could They ______! or ______! But, once having reviewed the trajectory of this 'Exceptional' tribe, my own: I deem this sub-rosa permanent criticism of the German tribe: bogus. If one totted up the reported Murican atrocities past/present, local/abroad just commented on in these foribuses (and then for me anyway: also ponder Sinclair Lewis' It Can't Happen Here--from 1935!) and throw in our oxymoronic 'business ethics' and the already slipping-away democratic Ideal (said to animate Americans.. once upon a time) Â where's the significant Difference? Am I a torturing-bastard because an infrahuman named Soo explained-away 'water-boarding' to a credulous (also bogus) selected-President? I think not. (I also throw into the mental-mix the anecdote, told in these pages, of a brief exchange with someone in the village of Dachau--now a bloody half-century ago!) Anyway, and for me, it's no longer a puzzlement. But obviously I am outnumbered in many psyches. That's their problem. How long do people keep these Nasty-memes? Well, 150 years after end of our civil war, some millions of Muricans still call the Pres. of the US a nigger. The first one, that is: call me in 5 or n years re the one that's brewing? (Hey I only had one medium Screwdriver avec fresh-squeezed orange juice/a dash of bitters.)
Post #378,551 by boxley 7/27/13 10:25:54 AM Reply	s/coolest/gay/g just sayin Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep

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