IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 1 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Paint stripping
I have 90 year old windows. They have weights in the sides and are connected to the window via chains.

They were originally stained, then painted, again and again.

Contractor said they cannot be "fixed" (put in original condition), at least not at any price he was willing to quote. Rip them all out and replace.

I have a heat gun that goes to 1,000 F. At 700 it bubbles the paint and allows me to get it off, leaving an occasional burn mark and lots of swirled burnt bubbled varnish. It takes about 2 hours per window for this process.

I need to use some type of stripper chemical to get the last bits of paint and varnish (recommendations?), then I need to sand, restain, and varnish (or polyurethane).

Also, I found that the original hardwood floor was covered with some crap wood (which they then laid linoleum on) via flat "nails" (flat? 1/2 a head? Looks like a a tiny hatchets. Need to use pliers to pull them, hammer just rips the head off.) So I'm ripping all that up (shingle shovel?), then will rent an orbital sander/polisher, sand it down, stain and poly it as well.

Moving along.
New Lots of elbow grease.
I'd be careful with the heat gun - you probably should assume you have lead paint under all those layers.

I'd assume any of the commercial paint strippers will work equally well, but I can imagine it will be an expensive and time consuming process.

Here's a page from about 20 years ago on the chemicals in paint strippers - it might give you an indication of what to look for - http://cool.conserva...aic32-01-005.html

HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Lead paint? Pheh, I laugh at it
When I was in junior high we had metal shop. In metal shop, my favorite thing to do was cast lead figurines.

I've already bubbled up 90% of the paint, so, to late anyway.
New So *that's* how you got your handle, eh? ;-)
New So lead -> crazy || mercury -> mad ?
--

Drew
New Have you ever used a heat gun?
As opposed to using chemical stripper on windows frames in place?

If so, you obviously hate my guts to tell me to use the stripper.

So I bought a bunch, and sprayed 1/2 a frame. And waited. And wiped and scraped. And sprayed more. And waited. And wiped and scrape. And sprayed more. And waited. And wiped and scraped.

This is EVIL shit and takes forever.

While I was waiting for it, I used the heat gun on the remaining window, and the remaining uppers of the others I already did the bottom.

When you use a heat gun, the varnish in the wood UNDERNEATH the paint liquefies, creating a liquid base the paint is riding on. Then you use a putty scraper to gently lift (no scraping, little effort) long wide strips of flexible yet solid paint. When you have a deep join, it lifts right out. This is MUCH faster and easier than attempting to dissolve it and clean up. The varnish is still there and requires a final stripper pass, but it uses just a little stripper and cleans up easy.

Once I made the mistake of using the stripper on the paint, it dissolved the varnish along with the paint, mixed them up and made a new horrible compound that is both difficult to get out of the cracks (oh, LOTS of detailed woodwork) and the heat gun will no longer work on it, it just dries it back to gunky hard powder IN the wood. So that means I need to do additional stripper passes along with steel wool scrubbing. ARG!

I don't care about these windows. I would have happily left them alone. But M mentioned she hated the paint, wanted them stained, but the contractor said NO WAY, and replacement is way out of $ availability right now. So M gave up on it. When she came home to see the 1st one done it was a magic moment.

It's worth it, but it still sucks.
New I suspect they do that on home repair shows
"Here you see Bob is cleaning the paint out of the trim using a dental pick ..."

Oh fuck that. If I ever need that done I'll hire someone.

Then you hire someone and they do it the sane way.
--

Drew
New You can't afford Bob with a dental pick
At least I can't. Very few people can.

New It was on Nantucket
And it was the exterior. They took the paint off the whole exterior with dental tools. No sandblasting or chemicals allowed.
--

Drew
New On the other hand
I DO have a bunch of dental tools (hard picks, scrapers, strong scalpel) so I will be using them for a bit.
New Yes.
Yes, I've done what you're doing. One 100+ year old window and trim was enough for me. I said it was a lot of work. ;-)

Yes, heat guns and a putty knife get a lot of the stuff off, but there's always residue that you need to use something else to get the remainder. A stripper or sanding is also required. It's a lot of work and messy.

http://www.housetask...ping_Woodwork.htm

When you initially asked for opinions, I was thinking that taking the sashes to a commercial paint stripping outfit was the way to go and did some searching for one. I couldn't find anything, though. And I realized that you probably can't have your window sashes missing for a few hours/days at a time either....

There probably are chemicals that can make your life easier and work well, but you might not be able to buy them any more. One of the links mentioned NMP - http://en.wikipedia....hyl-2-pyrrolidone . It's a fabulous solvent that is used in industry (it dissolves epoxy and lots of other things). It would probably make short-work of the remaining paint. But it's a reproductive hazard. And you have to heat it up to 140F or more have it work most effectively. And you need to rinse it with alcohol or water, so it's best used in a batch process rather than painting it on a surface. And I don't know how compatible it is with wood...

This stuff has methylene chloride (aka Freon 30 or R-30) among other things in it - http://www.homedepot...4685#.UWHn-FchGXt (read the MSDS to see the ingredients and the cautions - note that your body converts R-30 into CO (carbon monoxide)). $24.50 a gallon. It may work well, but no paint stripper I've tried has ever worked for me as well as they claim.

My most recent stripping and refinishing project was an old cherry cabinet that had been made into a bath vanity. The original finish was that thick red color that is called "cherry" and it had been beaten up and water damaged over the years. I thought long and hard about how to do it and eventually decided that sanding was the way to go. The wood was softer than I thought, and I took off more wood in places than I hoped, but it turned out pretty well eventually (though a professional would cry over how I had "ruined" it, it looks 1000x better than it did when I started). I already had a(n ungodly expensive) Festool sanding/vacuum package that made it a fairly quick and clean. Getting the polyurethane applied smoothly and uniformly was the most frustrating part of the process (I think I put about a dozen coats on the top).

I feel for you. It's a lot of work. Take your time and be careful and you'll have something to be proud of when you're done. Or at least a conversation piece. ;-)

Cheers,
Scott.
New Festool
sounds like a crappy disease.

/me g,d&rfc.
New rofl.
New Note to self - stripper eats nitrile gloves
And once it hits the skin, it turns it all into a fiery rubbery chemical mess that has to be scrubbed out of the folds of the skin as it is eating away underneath.

Gets under the wedding ring as well.
New Good to know
--

Drew
New Yeah, it's bad. Hey AS
Which gloves should I go buy?
New Here's what I've been able to find.
http://www.osha.gov/...eets/mcfsno7.html

Avoid Direct Skin Contact with MC

Wear two pairs of gloves when using MC. The inner glove should be made of polyethylene (PE)/ethylene vinyl alcohol (EVOH), PE, or laminate to prevent MC penetration. The outer glove should be made of nitrile or neoprene to protect against puncture or rips. [Note: Because MC can readily penetrate nitrile and neoprene, wearing just the outer glove will not protect your skin from MC exposure.]

Wear shoulder length gloves, or the longest gloves possible.

Before use, inspect gloves for pin-holes, cracks, thin spots, softening, swelling, and stiff or sticky surfaces.

Change gloves frequently, before breakthrough occurs.

Rotate several pairs of gloves throughout the day.

Let gloves dry in a warm, well-ventilated area at least overnight before reuse.

Wear rubber aprons and boots or shoe covers to prevent MC from getting on your clothes which results in prolonged skin contact with MC.

Wear a face shield or goggles to protect your face and eyes.

Use the washing facilities in your work area to wash off any MC from your hands and face.

Use lots of soap or mild detergent and water to clean grease, oil, dirt, or anything else off your skin. Do not use MC or other organic solvents to clean your skin.


More scary stuff about real-world use of MC is here - http://www.osha.gov/...hazard_alert.html

Here's a couple of examples of "laminate gloves" - http://www.envirosaf...eld-4h-glove.html
http://www.ansellpro...spx?productId=259

I don't know where you can find them in a major store.

Do what you can with tools and try to keep your gloves out of the stuff.

Hope this helps. Be careful and good luck.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Thanks
Don't worry about me dying using the MC based stripper.

4 windows in the room. I have 2 large fans in 2 of them at all times exhausting the room. There is a constant breeze through all the windows, so much that I have to be careful not to let the stripper dry too fast. And I am always using a pesticide face mask when working with it, no initial smell.
New Ok, 1st one done
About time you say?

Heat stripped paint, shitloads of varnish left over, then MC scraped, then MC scraped (lather rinse repeat), and then MC scraped with mineral spirits sprayed. Goopy evil mess goes EVERYWHERE.

Whenever using MC I have multiple glove layers on. Vinyl (MC protect skin), then nitrile (try to resist punctures, vinyl sucks for that), then ANOTHER vinyl layer (protect nitrile gloves, MC eat right through nitrile).

Paint/Pesticide mask. Usually long sleeves, but hey, I like these red stripy burns on my arms, they add character. Really.

Then MC with steel ribbon pot scrubbers. It take a dozen of them to run through one window, they dull out quickly. And when doing this splinters are everywhere and my hand is flying. My PWW performed some surgery to get rid of one the other day.

Then came the dental tools. Heat gun against all seams, slowly work my way around, again and again. Heat gun on nitrile gloves quickly melts them to my hand. Heat gun on rubbery grippy gloves shows up WAY too late, cooking the glove around my hand by the time I realize it.

Then heat gun and steel ribbon scrubbers again.

Then dental scraper on the corners.

Hey M, does it pass, is it OK?
M: Yup.

Ok, you can start staining while I finish the others.

Whew.
New You're a good man. I'm sure she appreciates it.
New "Or how about a nice high-gloss white?"
--

Drew
New >:-)
New Whuh?
Remember those oak tongue and groove floor boards I ripped up from the Craig's List house?

We will be staining the window frames and those boards the same color, somewhat dark. We will use the same color for the floor after it gets sanded.

After the windows are stained, but before we do the floor, the room will be patched and painted royal blue. Ceiling too. We only have to paint the top 1/2 of the room, and any mess I've been making under that level will be ignored.

Then we do the floor.

Then I run 3 boards horizontally around the room (on the floor, at 2 feet, and at 4 feet) to be used as anchor points for the oak "flooring" (now walling).

Those oak boards will be placed on all walls around the room, positioned vertically, 4 feet high. There will no longer be any floor base boards, the oak will go to the floor, and I will cut holes for outlets into them. We will run a pretty board along the top to cap it off.

We have 2 3x5 mirrors (craig's list, FREE) to be placed behind the bed, and I will do the smaller 1x1 squares for the rest of the wall and 2 feet around the corner. In order to place the large mirrors (horizontally), I will place a 2x4 (stained to match, possibly with a bit of wood scroll work) along the wall at the top of the oak. I will cut a lip into it to rest the mirror on. I will place another 2x4 (these 2x4s will be ANCHORED into the concrete wall) above the mirror, with lips both on bottom and top to lock in the mirror and rest another above. I'll put another above that to lock it in, and then ceiling is there.

Any real suggestions or variations?
Expand Edited by crazy April 28, 2013, 05:03:58 PM EDT
New Obviously your way is better
I'm not yet in a house I want to keep long enough to be worth that effort.
--

Drew
New Are you still in the house I visited you at?
Sure was a pretty bathroom with the various scraps pasted to the wall.
New That's the one
Great house, shitty schools.
--

Drew
New Yeah, I remember that decision
Hmm, pay 1/2 as much for a house and send them to private school, or spend double, and they go to a good local one.

Now I'm DONE.
New We're looking for option B right now
And trying to get her parents on board with moving with us. We know we're going to end up taking care of them within 5 years anyway, makes more sense to sell both houses and get something we'll all be comfortable in.

And we've only got a year left before high school, when the price for the schools goes *WAY* up.
--

Drew
New Re: Paint stripping
Nitromors.

Great stuff.
New Too bad it won't work for you anymore
They took the main ingredient out a couple of years ago.

On the other hand, freely available to me in a different product. I just need to read labels in the store.

Of course, AS probably wouldn't use it. Wimp. ;-}

http://www.saferchem...thylchloride.html
New No need. We had our windows replaced years ago. ;-)
New DOT3/4 brake fluid >:-)
New Floor mostly gone
1st day M and I did a couple of sections. The rip up is EASY with the shingle shovels.
I got 2, a small and large, and use them at the same time to leverage up the whole plywood section.

But the left over 1/2 nails SUCK, maybe 15 per piece of hardwood. The top rips off and it is tough to leverage them out with pliers. There will be a bunch left over when done.

My PWW has ADHD and spent the last 2 hours ripping them out with deep focus. Yay.

I need them to be gone when I get to the sanding/polishing stage. I ASSUME I will drill them out, and then possibly hit it with a bit of wood putty. Anyone have any alternative suggestions?
New Hog-nose pliers
http://item.mobilewe...emId=160957557502
--

Drew
Expand Edited by drook April 5, 2013, 12:26:27 PM EDT
New +1 on that
--
greg@gregfolkert.net
PGP key 1024D/B524687C 2003-08-05
Fingerprint: E1D3 E3D7 5850 957E FED0 2B3A ED66 6971 B524 687C
New not pliers, nippers
http://www.aconcordc...ls-my-review.html
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 57 years. meep
New Yes, cutters is the way to go.
I usually use a heavy duty wire cutter (8" long) with somewhat angled handles. Not as efficient as the NailJack, may have to rock it several times, but quite effective.

But yes, cutters is the way to go, not pliers. Cutters get a good grip (just be sure not to squeeze so hard as to actually cut the nail).
New Yeah, been using the cutters
But these are NOT nails.

They are skinny flat (seems to be aluminum) 1/2 head things.

The amount of pressure needed to grip and pull is USUALLY slightly less than the amount of pressure needed to cut into it, but not by much. So that means even with perfect care, I have at least 100 of these (out of thousand plus) with the slightest nub up, ungrippable, and a few with simply nothing but will show up during sanding.

So, once we've move past pulling them, what are my options other than many skinny drill bits (I'll be breaking them as they heat up).
New Awl ... pound 'em down
--

Drew
New Air nailer projectiles
Essentially one legged staples, the bottom section is grooved which is why it is so hard to get them out.

The best removal tool I have found so far is a set of Vise-Grips. Unlike nail pulling pliers, you can put a lot more pressure on without cutting through the stem. The rounded top section of the tool can be abused to provide the same action as nail puller pliers and because the diameter is larger (assuming a regular size set), you can pull longer before having to reset your grip.

If they are too close to the floor for the tool to catch, you can drive them below surface level with a nail set. These things are hardened. Drilling will likely do a bigger number on the floor as the bits will skip.
New Agreed. Drilling is a bad idea.
New Got it
Thanks
New Yes...
I've got a ChannelLock about the size of a large pipe wrench. There's very little it can't get out, given enough room to work.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
     Paint stripping - (crazy) - (42)
         Lots of elbow grease. - (Another Scott) - (26)
             Lead paint? Pheh, I laugh at it - (crazy) - (2)
                 So *that's* how you got your handle, eh? ;-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                     So lead -> crazy || mercury -> mad ? -NT - (drook)
             Have you ever used a heat gun? - (crazy) - (22)
                 I suspect they do that on home repair shows - (drook) - (3)
                     You can't afford Bob with a dental pick - (crazy) - (1)
                         It was on Nantucket - (drook)
                     On the other hand - (crazy)
                 Yes. - (Another Scott) - (17)
                     Festool - (jake123) - (1)
                         rofl. -NT - (Another Scott)
                     Note to self - stripper eats nitrile gloves - (crazy) - (14)
                         Good to know -NT - (drook) - (13)
                             Yeah, it's bad. Hey AS - (crazy) - (12)
                                 Here's what I've been able to find. - (Another Scott) - (11)
                                     Thanks - (crazy) - (10)
                                         Ok, 1st one done - (crazy) - (9)
                                             You're a good man. I'm sure she appreciates it. -NT - (Another Scott)
                                             "Or how about a nice high-gloss white?" -NT - (drook) - (7)
                                                 >:-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                 Whuh? - (crazy) - (5)
                                                     Obviously your way is better - (drook) - (4)
                                                         Are you still in the house I visited you at? - (crazy) - (3)
                                                             That's the one - (drook) - (2)
                                                                 Yeah, I remember that decision - (crazy) - (1)
                                                                     We're looking for option B right now - (drook)
         Re: Paint stripping - (pwhysall) - (2)
             Too bad it won't work for you anymore - (crazy) - (1)
                 No need. We had our windows replaced years ago. ;-) -NT - (Another Scott)
         DOT3/4 brake fluid >:-) -NT - (scoenye)
         Floor mostly gone - (crazy) - (10)
             Hog-nose pliers - (drook) - (1)
                 +1 on that -NT - (folkert)
             not pliers, nippers - (boxley) - (7)
                 Yes, cutters is the way to go. - (Andrew Grygus) - (6)
                     Yeah, been using the cutters - (crazy) - (5)
                         Awl ... pound 'em down -NT - (drook)
                         Air nailer projectiles - (scoenye) - (3)
                             Agreed. Drilling is a bad idea. -NT - (Another Scott)
                             Got it - (crazy)
                             Yes... - (malraux)

You might, rabbit. You might.
236 ms