Planned insane POSIX bash behaviour

Well it appears as though it must be UNIX...
as Windoze doesn't support those kinds of special characters as allowed names PERIOD.(Which means never will be POSIX compliant)
Hope this explains a bunch. Been in there a long while if it is broken. I believe it ain't, as those chars are required by Posix... which was built "kinda" around "ksh".

gfolkert@KNIGHT ~ $ uname -a CYGWIN_NT-5.0 KNIGHT 1.3.10(0.51/3/2) 2002-02-25 11:14 i686 unknown gfolkert@KNIGHT ~ $ mkdir foo gfolkert@KNIGHT ~ $ cd foo gfolkert@KNIGHT ~/foo $ touch *.foo touch: creating `*.foo': No such file or directory gfolkert@KNIGHT ~/foo $ bash --version GNU bash, version 2.05a.0(3)-release (i686-pc-cygwin) Copyright 2001 Free Software Foundation, Inc. gfolkert@KNIGHT ~/foo $ ssh squire gfolkert@SQUIRE's password: gfolkert@SQUIRE ~ $ uname -a CYGWIN_NT-5.0 SQUIRE 1.3.10(0.51/3/2) 2002-02-25 11:14 i686 unknown gfolkert@SQUIRE ~ $ mkdir foo gfolkert@SQUIRE ~ $ cd foo gfolkert@SQUIRE ~/foo $ touch *.foo touch: creating `*.foo': No such file or directory gfolkert@SQUIRE ~/foo $ bash --version GNU bash, version 2.05a.0(3)-release (i686-pc-cygwin) Copyright 2001 Free Software Foundation, Inc. gfolkert@SQUIRE ~/foo $ exit logout Connection to squire closed. gfolkert@KNIGHT ~/foo $ ssh stimpy gfolkert@stimpy's password: Last login: Thu Apr 25 14:30:17 EDT 2002 from :20 Welcome to: stimpy Please remember that activities are monitored, which may include session reconstruction. [gfolkert@stimpy gfolkert]$ uname -a Linux stimpy 2.4.16 #1 Fri Dec 7 09:07:26 EST 2001 i686 unknown [gfolkert@stimpy gfolkert]$ mkdir foo [gfolkert@stimpy gfolkert]$ cd foo [gfolkert@stimpy ~/foo]$ touch *.foo [gfolkert@stimpy ~/foo]$ ls -l total 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 gfolkert users 0 Apr 26 18:56 *.foo [gfolkert@stimpy ~/foo]$ bash --version GNU bash, version 2.05.8(1)-release (i386-redhat-linux-gnu) Copyright 2000 Free Software Foundation, Inc. [gfolkert@stimpy ~/foo]$ ssh raider gfolkert@raider's password: Last successful login for gfolkert: Thu Apr 18 16:48:41 EDT 2002 from :1 Welcome to: raider Please remember that activities are monitored, which may include session reconstruction. [gfolkert@raider gfolkert]$ uname -a OSF1 raider V5.0 1094 alpha [gfolkert@raider gfolkert]$ mkdir foo [gfolkert@raider gfolkert]$ cd foo/ [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ touch *.foo [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ ls -l total 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 gfolkert staff 0 Apr 26 18:57 *.foo [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ bash --version GNU bash, version 2.04.0(1)-release (alpha-dec-osf5.0) Copyright 1999 Free Software Foundation, Inc. [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ rm \\*.foo [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ ksh [gfolkert@raider ~]$ cd foo [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ touch *.foo [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ ls -l total 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 gfolkert staff 0 Apr 26 18:57 *.foo [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ exit [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ exit logout Connection to raider closed. [gfolkert@stimpy ~/foo]$ ssh serv gfolkert@serv's password: Last login: Thu Apr 18 16:50:27 EDT 2002 from :7 Welcome to: serv Please remember that activities are monitored, which may include session reconstruction. [gfolkert@serv gfolkert]$ uname -a OSF1 serv V4.0 878 alpha [gfolkert@serv gfolkert]$ mkdir foo [gfolkert@serv gfolkert]$ cd foo [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ touch *.foo [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ ls -l total 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 gfolkert staff 0 Apr 26 18:58 *.foo [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ bash -version GNU bash, version 1.14.7(1) [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ rm \\*.foo [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ ksh [gfolkert@serv ~]$ cd foo [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ touch *.foo [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ ls -l total 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 gfolkert staff 0 Apr 26 18:58 *.foo [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ exit [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ exit logout Connection to serv closed. [gfolkert@stimpy gfolkert]$ ssh namer gfolkert@namer's password: Last login: Fri Apr 19 07:51:52 2002 from stimpy Valid and Authorized connections only: namer Please remember that activities are monitored, which may include session reconstruction. [gfolkert@namer /gfolkert]# bash -version GNU bash, version 1.14.7(1) [gfolkert@namer gfolkert]$ uname -a Linux namer 2.0.36 #1 Tue Oct 13 22:17:11 EDT 1998 i586 unknown [gfolkert@namer gfolkert]$ mkdir foo [gfolkert@namer gfolkert]$ cd foo [gfolkert@namer ~/foo]$ touch *.foo [gfolkert@namer ~/foo]$ ls -l total 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 gfolkert users 0 Apr 26 19:00 *.foo [gfolkert@namer ~/foo]$ exit logout Connection to namer closed. [gfolkert@stimpy gfolkert]$ [gfolkert@stimpy ~/foo]$ exit Connection to stimpy closed. gfolkert@KNIGHT ~/foo $ exit

There you see....

Now if you look you may see some interesting things about the environ I run... ;) As only the names have been trucated or changed to protect the innocent (or me Really)

I think the big difference here is that the Unix shells are responsible for pathname expansion. For instance (in bash on Linux):


sh-2.04$ ls -l DER*pdf
-rw-r--r--   1 morganek users        9720 Oct 16  2001 DEReport.pdf
sh-2.04$ set -o noglob
sh-2.04$ cp DER*pdf mtestme.pdf
cp: DER*pdf: No such file or directory
sh-2.04$ set +o noglob
sh-2.04$ cp DER*pdf mtestme.pdf
sh-2.04$ ls -l mtestme.pdf 
-rw-r--r--   1 morganek users        9720 Apr 27 11:47 mtestme.pdf
sh-2.04$

What is significant here is that the command, "cp", does not do pathname expansion. The expansion is handled by bash and passed to cp.

On the Windows side, the COMMAND.COM/CMD.EXE shells do not do expansion when parsing input to determine what to load. As an example, the XCOPY.EXE (or .COM--I forget) executable is responsible for expanding wildcards.

Post #36,633 by folkert 4/26/02 8:22:02 PM Reply	Planned insane POSIX bash behaviour Well it appears as though it must be UNIX... as Windoze doesn't support those kinds of special characters as allowed names PERIOD.(Which means never will be POSIX compliant) Hope this explains a bunch. Been in there a long while if it is broken. I believe it ain't, as those chars are required by Posix... which was built "kinda" around "ksh". gfolkert@KNIGHT ~ $ uname -a CYGWIN_NT-5.0 KNIGHT 1.3.10(0.51/3/2) 2002-02-25 11:14 i686 unknown gfolkert@KNIGHT ~ $ mkdir foo gfolkert@KNIGHT ~ $ cd foo gfolkert@KNIGHT ~/foo $ touch .foo touch: creating `.foo': No such file or directory gfolkert@KNIGHT ~/foo $ bash --version GNU bash, version 2.05a.0(3)-release (i686-pc-cygwin) Copyright 2001 Free Software Foundation, Inc. gfolkert@KNIGHT ~/foo $ ssh squire gfolkert@SQUIRE's password: gfolkert@SQUIRE ~ $ uname -a CYGWIN_NT-5.0 SQUIRE 1.3.10(0.51/3/2) 2002-02-25 11:14 i686 unknown gfolkert@SQUIRE ~ $ mkdir foo gfolkert@SQUIRE ~ $ cd foo gfolkert@SQUIRE ~/foo $ touch .foo touch: creating `.foo': No such file or directory gfolkert@SQUIRE ~/foo $ bash --version GNU bash, version 2.05a.0(3)-release (i686-pc-cygwin) Copyright 2001 Free Software Foundation, Inc. gfolkert@SQUIRE ~/foo $ exit logout Connection to squire closed. gfolkert@KNIGHT ~/foo $ ssh stimpy gfolkert@stimpy's password: Last login: Thu Apr 25 14:30:17 EDT 2002 from :20 Welcome to: stimpy Please remember that activities are monitored, which may include session reconstruction. [gfolkert@stimpy gfolkert]$ uname -a Linux stimpy 2.4.16 #1 Fri Dec 7 09:07:26 EST 2001 i686 unknown [gfolkert@stimpy gfolkert]$ mkdir foo [gfolkert@stimpy gfolkert]$ cd foo [gfolkert@stimpy ~/foo]$ touch .foo [gfolkert@stimpy ~/foo]$ ls -l total 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 gfolkert users 0 Apr 26 18:56 .foo [gfolkert@stimpy ~/foo]$ bash --version GNU bash, version 2.05.8(1)-release (i386-redhat-linux-gnu) Copyright 2000 Free Software Foundation, Inc. [gfolkert@stimpy ~/foo]$ ssh raider gfolkert@raider's password: Last successful login for gfolkert: Thu Apr 18 16:48:41 EDT 2002 from :1 Welcome to: raider Please remember that activities are monitored, which may include session reconstruction. [gfolkert@raider gfolkert]$ uname -a OSF1 raider V5.0 1094 alpha [gfolkert@raider gfolkert]$ mkdir foo [gfolkert@raider gfolkert]$ cd foo/ [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ touch .foo [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ ls -l total 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 gfolkert staff 0 Apr 26 18:57 .foo [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ bash --version GNU bash, version 2.04.0(1)-release (alpha-dec-osf5.0) Copyright 1999 Free Software Foundation, Inc. [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ rm \\.foo [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ ksh [gfolkert@raider ~]$ cd foo [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ touch .foo [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ ls -l total 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 gfolkert staff 0 Apr 26 18:57 .foo [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ exit [gfolkert@raider ~/foo]$ exit logout Connection to raider closed. [gfolkert@stimpy ~/foo]$ ssh serv gfolkert@serv's password: Last login: Thu Apr 18 16:50:27 EDT 2002 from :7 Welcome to: serv Please remember that activities are monitored, which may include session reconstruction. [gfolkert@serv gfolkert]$ uname -a OSF1 serv V4.0 878 alpha [gfolkert@serv gfolkert]$ mkdir foo [gfolkert@serv gfolkert]$ cd foo [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ touch .foo [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ ls -l total 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 gfolkert staff 0 Apr 26 18:58 .foo [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ bash -version GNU bash, version 1.14.7(1) [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ rm \\.foo [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ ksh [gfolkert@serv ~]$ cd foo [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ touch .foo [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ ls -l total 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 gfolkert staff 0 Apr 26 18:58 .foo [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ exit [gfolkert@serv ~/foo]$ exit logout Connection to serv closed. [gfolkert@stimpy gfolkert]$ ssh namer gfolkert@namer's password: Last login: Fri Apr 19 07:51:52 2002 from stimpy Valid and Authorized connections only: namer Please remember that activities are monitored, which may include session reconstruction. [gfolkert@namer /gfolkert]# bash -version GNU bash, version 1.14.7(1) [gfolkert@namer gfolkert]$ uname -a Linux namer 2.0.36 #1 Tue Oct 13 22:17:11 EDT 1998 i586 unknown [gfolkert@namer gfolkert]$ mkdir foo [gfolkert@namer gfolkert]$ cd foo [gfolkert@namer ~/foo]$ touch .foo [gfolkert@namer ~/foo]$ ls -l total 0 -rw-r--r-- 1 gfolkert users 0 Apr 26 19:00 .foo [gfolkert@namer ~/foo]$ exit logout Connection to namer closed. [gfolkert@stimpy gfolkert]$ [gfolkert@stimpy ~/foo]$ exit Connection to stimpy closed. gfolkert@KNIGHT ~/foo $ exit There you see.... Now if you look you may see some interesting things about the environ I run... ;) As only the names have been trucated or changed to protect the innocent (or me Really) `greg, curley95@attbi.com -- REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!`
Post #36,661 by hnick 4/27/02 10:56:33 AM Reply	Not sure about that I agree that Windows does not have a mechanism for special characters, which is why Cygwin works correctly. In unix you can use wild card characters in names if you escape them. Consistant behavior requires that unescaped wild cards be expanded and passed to the calling program as arguements. *.whatever in an empty directory expands to null. Either touch is inconsistant with the rest of the usual unix utilities (read broke) or the shell(s) are broke in this instance. If you forgive broken behaviour because it's been around a long time, then I guess Windows is really OK then, hmmm? /ducks, snickering, and runs Hugh
Post #36,663 by morganek 4/27/02 11:52:08 AM Reply	Pathname Expansion I think the big difference here is that the Unix shells are responsible for pathname expansion. For instance (in bash on Linux): sh-2.04$ ls -l DERpdf -rw-r--r-- 1 morganek users 9720 Oct 16 2001 DEReport.pdf sh-2.04$ set -o noglob sh-2.04$ cp DERpdf mtestme.pdf cp: DERpdf: No such file or directory sh-2.04$ set +o noglob sh-2.04$ cp DERpdf mtestme.pdf sh-2.04$ ls -l mtestme.pdf -rw-r--r-- 1 morganek users 9720 Apr 27 11:47 mtestme.pdf sh-2.04$ What is significant here is that the command, "cp", does not do pathname expansion. The expansion is handled by bash and passed to cp. On the Windows side, the COMMAND.COM/CMD.EXE shells do not do expansion when parsing input to determine what to load. As an example, the XCOPY.EXE (or .COM--I forget) executable is responsible for expanding wildcards. -Mike

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