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New From the article
"Iraq was not an exceptional case. It was a vivid symptom of a long-term trend, one that worsens year by year."

For example;

The authors conduct a gut-wrenching inquiry into the tragedy at My Lai on March 16, 1968, when U.S. Army troops slaughtered some 500 Vietnamese villagers.

http://www.amazon.co...reader_0140177094





If we learn to accept this, there is nothing we will not accept.

Jonathan Schell, 1968

New True. But these things must happen in every war.
Only the scale changes. :-(

Cheers,
Scott.
New Have you that book?
If so, I'm curious. The page says, in part, "...the authors have tracked down and interviewed survivors of the massacre, perpetrators and bystanders..." Did they interview Colin Powell?
New Yes, I have this book
They did not interview Powell, who was a 31 year old major at the time.

I personally find this book very hard to read because it is so terrible and saddening to me.(Full disclosure; I served in VietNam for 23 months - 1969-70, Army)

Who would shoot a five-year old trying to crawl out of a ditch to get away?

From Wiki:

"Most of the enlisted men who were involved in the events at My Lai had already left military service, and were thus legally exempt from prosecution. In the end, of the 26 men initially charged, Calley was the only one convicted."

[...]

"...in 1974, President Nixon tacitly issued Calley a limited Presidential Pardon"



If we learn to accept this, there is nothing we will not accept.

Jonathan Schell, 1968
New They should have interviewed him.
Another rare case of critical journalism was Charles Lane's article "The Legend of Colin Powell" in the New Republic (4/17/95). Focusing on Powell's second year-long stint in Vietnam, the article highlighted research done by British authors Michael Bilton and Kevin Sim in their book, Four Hours in My Lai (Penguin, 1993). The authors had discovered in the National Archives a letter from specialist fourth class Tom Glen, who was a young soldier in the Americal Division.

In November 1968, Glen wrote a letter to Gen. Creighton Abrams about the Americal's extreme abuse of Vietnamese civilians and captured Viet Cong suspects. Glen's overall complaints encompassed some of the atrocities later dubbed the My Lai massacre (which had occurred on March 16, 1968). Though Glen included no specific reference to My Lai, he expressed deep concern about American troops who "without provocation or justification shoot at the people themselves."

In early December 1968, Glen's heart-felt letter landed on the desk of a fast-rising officer in the Americal's 11th Brigade, which included the unit that had carried out the My Lai slaughter. The officer, Major Colin Powell, conducted a cursory investigation and then--without even contacting Glen or urging that anyone else do so--dismissed the young soldier's concerns as unfounded. Powell's memo, dated Dec. 13, 1968, was to serve as the basis for the Army's official dismissive reply to Glen's letter. Powell wrote: "In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between Americal soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent."

In his account of these events, Lane noted that "there is something missing...from the legend of Colin Powell, something epitomized, perhaps, by that long-ago bureaucratic brush-off of Tom Glen."

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1344

He has never been held to account for that.
New OTOH.
http://boards.straig...hread.php?t=25885

I don't know enough about his involvement (or lack thereof) to offer an opinion either way.

FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New There is no other hand.
But a test soon confronted Maj. Powell. A letter had been written by a young specialist fourth class named Tom Glen, who had served in an Americal mortar platoon and was nearing the end of his Army tour. In a letter to Gen. Creighton Abrams, the commander of all U.S. forces in Vietnam, Glen accused the Americal division of routine brutality against civilians. Glen's letter was forwarded to the Americal headquarters at Chu Lai where it landed on Maj. Powell's desk.

"The average GI's attitude toward and treatment of the Vietnamese people all too often is a complete denial of all our country is attempting to accomplish in the realm of human relations," Glen wrote. "Far beyond merely dismissing the Vietnamese as 'slopes' or 'gooks,' in both deed and thought, too many American soldiers seem to discount their very humanity; and with this attitude inflict upon the Vietnamese citizenry humiliations, both psychological and physical, that can have only a debilitating effect upon efforts to unify the people in loyalty to the Saigon government, particularly when such acts are carried out at unit levels and thereby acquire the aspect of sanctioned policy."

Glen's letter contended that many Vietnamese were fleeing from Americans who "for mere pleasure, fire indiscriminately into Vietnamese homes and without provocation or justification shoot at the people themselves." Gratuitous cruelty was also being inflicted on Viet Cong suspects, Glen reported.

"Fired with an emotionalism that belies unconscionable hatred, and armed with a vocabulary consisting of 'You VC,' soldiers commonly 'interrogate' by means of torture that has been presented as the particular habit of the enemy. Severe beatings and torture at knife point are usual means of questioning captives or of convincing a suspect that he is, indeed, a Viet Cong...

"It would indeed be terrible to find it necessary to believe that an American soldier that harbors such racial intolerance and disregard for justice and human feeling is a prototype of all American national character; yet the frequency of such soldiers lends credulity to such beliefs. ... What has been outlined here I have seen not only in my own unit, but also in others we have worked with, and I fear it is universal. If this is indeed the case, it is a problem which cannot be overlooked, but can through a more firm implementation of the codes of MACV (Military Assistance Command Vietnam) and the Geneva Conventions, perhaps be eradicated."

Glen's letter echoed some of the complaints voiced by early advisers, such as Col. John Paul Vann, who protested the self-defeating strategy of treating Vietnamese civilians as the enemy. In 1995, when we questioned Glen about his letter, he said he had heard second-hand about the My Lai massacre, though he did not mention it specifically. The massacre was just one part of the abusive pattern that had become routine in the division, he said.

Maj. Powell's Response

The letter's troubling allegations were not well received at Americal headquarters. Maj. Powell undertook the assignment to review Glen's letter, but did so without questioning Glen or assigning anyone else to talk with him. Powell simply accepted a claim from Glen's superior officer that Glen was not close enough to the front lines to know what he was writing about, an assertion Glen denies.

After that cursory investigation, Powell drafted a response on Dec. 13, 1968. He admitted to no pattern of wrongdoing. Powell claimed that U.S. soldiers in Vietnam were taught to treat Vietnamese courteously and respectfully. The Americal troops also had gone through an hour-long course on how to treat prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions, Powell noted.

"There may be isolated cases of mistreatment of civilians and POWs," Powell wrote in 1968. But "this by no means reflects the general attitude throughout the Division." Indeed, Powell's memo faulted Glen for not complaining earlier and for failing to be more specific in his letter.

Powell reported back exactly what his superiors wanted to hear. "In direct refutation of this [Glen's] portrayal," Powell concluded, "is the fact that relations between Americal soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent."

Powell's findings, of course, were false. But it would take another Americal hero, an infantryman named Ron Ridenhour, to piece together the truth about the atrocity at My Lai. After returning to the United States, Ridenhour interviewed Americal comrades who had participated in the massacre.

On his own, Ridenhour compiled this shocking information into a report and forwarded it to the Army inspector general. The IG's office conducted an aggressive official investigation and the Army finally faced the horrible truth. Courts martial were held against officers and enlisted men implicated in the murder of the My Lai civilians.

But Powell's peripheral role in the My Lai cover-up did not slow his climb up the Army's ladder. Powell pleaded ignorance about the actual My Lai massacre, which pre-dated his arrival at the Americal. Glen's letter disappeared into the National Archives -- to be unearthed only years later by British journalists Michael Bilton and Kevin Sims for their book Four Hours in My Lai. In his best-selling memoirs, Powell did not mention his brush-off of Tom Glen's complaint.

http://www.consortiu...chive/colin3.html

Sorry, he doesn't deserve a pass on this imo.
New You have a source you like and trust.
I'm not willing to go that far just yet.

I see Glen's side presented in detail with long extended quotes. I don't see that for Powell's side; instead I see the author telling us what Powell thought about when he did this job, etc., and a two sentence excerpt from the letter.

The author may be right, but you can see that he's not attempting to let the reader draw their own conclusion based on a balanced presentation of the evidence.

I haven't found the full text of Powell's letter online. I haven't found the full text of Glen's letter either. I'm sure it's in the Archives somewhere, but I dunno if it's online.

My skimming of the Peers Report doesn't find Powell's name mentioned, but lots and lots of others are.

http://law2.umkc.edu...lai/MYL_Peers.htm

Peers was assigned to investigate the massacre by Westmoreland on November 26, 1969 - about 2-3 weeks before Powell's letter.

Again - I'm not drawing any conclusions, but I have suspicions that Powell isn't getting a fair shake in the accusations against him.

FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New If he's innocent, he could fix that.
When he finally said of My Lai, "That was my division" I posted here "Finally." Surely you'd agree that Powell has heard the accusations. Surely you'd agree that most of what you read about Powell's involvement is, say, something less than glowing. Given all that, why has Powell remained silent? IME, when you're guilty, you keep your mouth shut.
New Dunno.
He's a public figure with a unique history. There's no benefit to him, or to history, for him to address accusations like this further. Nothing he says now will change anything.

He wrote about Vietnam in his book. http://www.amazon.co...ell/dp/0345466411 Chapter 6 on Vietnam is nearly complete (pages 126 - 149 are there with a couple missing) and addresses My Lai and associated things to some extent.

FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New The thing I've always found distressing about him.
At work the HR department used to have this "book club" thing where they'd get together, agree on a book, everyone would read it and they'd meet once every two weeks to discuss it. I never participated, but they chose a book by him (title escapes me) but it was on "leadership, trustworthiness, integrity", his usual trademarks. This guy has always been "someone to admire" in popular culture. The three things that come to my mind whenever his name is mentioned are:

1) At a Repo dinner he was attending when he bragged about his ascension and the fact that "in college, I was a D student". It was his way of saying "higher education doesn't really mean anything."
2) My Lai
3) Lying to the UN, complete with artwork, to engage us in an unnecessary, pre-emptive war and change our image, perhaps irrevocably, in the minds of the entire world.

FWIW. ;0)
     decline and fall - (rcareaga) - (14)
         More. - (Another Scott) - (2)
             thanks for the full link, very interesting read -NT - (boxley)
             'Like an odorless gas, it pervades every corner of the - (Ashton)
         From the article - (dmcarls) - (10)
             True. But these things must happen in every war. - (Another Scott)
             Have you that book? - (mmoffitt) - (8)
                 Yes, I have this book - (dmcarls) - (7)
                     They should have interviewed him. - (mmoffitt) - (6)
                         OTOH. - (Another Scott) - (5)
                             There is no other hand. - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                 You have a source you like and trust. - (Another Scott) - (3)
                                     If he's innocent, he could fix that. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                         Dunno. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                             The thing I've always found distressing about him. - (mmoffitt)

That's very funny, a fly marrying a bumblebee!
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