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New My biased comment: Show them a Mac :)
In a perfect world, it's the definition of a complex system hiding behind a simple interface.


Edit: Thought I'd better explain what the hell I was on about.


On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
Expand Edited by Meerkat April 9, 2002, 09:27:33 PM EDT
New Emphasis on "perfect".
One of our customers requires our product work on Macs. Well, it runs in a web browser, so just use a Mac web browser, right? Well...

The same customer has loaned us an iMac: G3 300MHz (or so), 32Mb RAM. IE 5.1/Mac. MacOS 8.5. (Some of their data was also Mac-based.) First of all, one of my colleagues is often swearing at how unintuitive and terrible the MacOS interface is. Hmm. Amongst other things, he misses the second mouse button*. Secondly, IE5 in 32Mb** is very very very very slow. I really don't understand why everyone says it's so good.

Wade.

* But I have to admit that that round mouse is An Absolutely Really Bad Idea and I hope whoever approved it at Apple got fired because of it.

** We tried to add more memory, but couldn't get it apart far enough to see the memory slots. :-/

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

New OS8.5?
Whoa, that's like positively ancient. Remember what it's like browsing on a 300MHz celeron Windows box with 32MB RAM? Still, could well be faster than doing same on a Mac. I know Mac OS 8.0 had a bad reputation, I figure 8.5 was better.

I'm guessing it might even be an original 233MHz model. I'm guess it's a tray-loading CD-ROM drive - so take a look at this [link|http://kbase.info.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/kbase.woa/wa/query?val=43012&x=11&y=9&type=ids&nodes=&dateModified=&wosid=UX4q2376QMoD2eg4we64DzwiGMc|URL from Hell].

Looks to be quite a procedure! But if it's a slot-loading one, it's much easier.
On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
New Whoops.
Actually, it's 8.6. The CD-ROM drive is like on a laptop. I'm digging now to see what speed it thinks it is. Ah: here we are - 266MHz. Hmm. With a 6gb HDD.

And that link requires a login.

Wade.

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

New Bugger.
The cookie's been set for so long I forgot about that. It's quite sucky how Apple now require you to register to get to their Knowledge Base. To cut a long story short, it involves taking out the whole motherboard to get at the SO-DIMM slot.

So it's a Revision B iMac by the sounds of it.

Anyway, so you don't need a login, there's a facility at the bottom of the page where I can email the article to you. Just let me know if you'd like me to do that. It has a few small diagrams, but I don't envisage it using a lot of bandwidth.
On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
New No, whoever approved the puck mouse probably wasn't fired...
...for it, because that whoever probably was interim-CEO-for-life Steve Jobs hisself. (I seem to recall having read somewhere.)

Isn't he precisely the kind of interfering anal busybody boss to screw around with detail shit like that?
   Christian R. Conrad
Of course, who am I to point fingers? I'm in the "Information Technology" business, prima facia evidence that there's bats in the bell tower.
-- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=27764|Andrew Grygus]
New Not fired.
Stoned to death by the big-hands brigade, like me.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
New There are rumours (once again) of a two-button mouse
But can you imagine His Steveness actually allowing such a thing?
On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
New Perhaps.
It does strike me as something he'd do. Actually I'm quite surprised it happened; Apple were big on interface design and usability and they throw up that stupid thing. "Don't eat parsley! Just for looks!"

Wade.

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

New It did a good job fulfilling one of iMacs primary objectives
That being: Get Attention.

Sort of along the lines of 'there's no such thing as bad publicity' - if people were saying how much they hate the mouse, at least they were talking about Apple without, for once, using 'beleagured' in the same sentence.

I've only used a hockey-puck mouse for about five mins so I can't really make a call.
On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
New Goddamn micky mouse
That stupid idiotic single button mouse is one reason I have never, ever, and will never consider a Mac.

Now these dumb wheel button mouses are almost as bad, but you don't have to use the damn wheel. Oh for the Logitech Mouseman three-button mice.
Famous last RPG quotes: "I'll just shoot this fireball down the dungeon passageway..."
New Buying a 3rd party mouse is sooo difficult and sooo costly
On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
New Laptops
The mouse issue is the single reason I'd never even consider any Apple portable.

Sorry, I'm not even planning on running MacOS on the stuff. And a crippled mouse...it just plain sucks.

Pity as they're otherwise fairly slick systems.
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?

   Keep software free.     Oppose the CBDTPA.     Kill S.2048 dead.
[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/...a_alert.html]]
New ObMacZealot : Reckon it's less of a prob on the lapdogs
But only if you're running MacOS. In MacOS, it's ctrl-Click to do a right click - it's much more easily achieved on a lapdog than on a seperate keyboard and mouse.

But yeah, if you're not running MacOS, there's every chance that yer screwed.
On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
New Nope. Simply put: Logitech Marble *Track*Man Rulez.
New Nope. Trackballs suck. Period.
I *HATE* those things. (grinding teeth) If my employer "gave" me one of those, I'd quit.
Famous last RPG quotes: "I'll just shoot this fireball down the dungeon passageway..."
New My seconds will call.. _______and break your thumbs.
New Ah, you haven't had mouse wrist yet...
I had a nasty bout with that back in 1999. Very painful. I switched over to a Logitech Marble Mouseman trackball at work and at home and have had zero problems since. Prior to that I hated trackballs too. I find though I have to clean the insides more often than with normal mice.
lister
New I just can't control the damn things
I don't have the control able to finger a mouseball and click on those side thingies at the same time. And I even find it hard to do separately.
Famous last RPG quotes: "I'll just shoot this fireball down the dungeon passageway..."
New Takes some getting used to
But once you do it feels pretty natural and it's nice not having to move the mouse around anymore. No more bouts with mouse wrist either. :-)
lister
New Agreement
Takes time to adjust...but after that time it ends up feeling very natural...and at the end of the day I think its easier on the hand and wrist.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Nope, trackballs still suck
I use them extensively, since we often use them on our machines (due to lack of space for a mouse), so I've had ample time to become adjusted. Heck, I've even used them (and mice) with gloves on, in cleanrooms for long periods of time. (Typing with gloves on is interesting)

I'll still take a mouse over anything else for a general purpose cursor mover -- and I've used multiple versions of just about everything (mice, trackballs, pointer sticks, touchpads, graphics tablets, touchscreens, cursor keys).

It still comes down to personal preference -- and trackballs don't work the best for me.

Tony
New That's why I went lefty
Once while playing water volleyball I smashed my right hand up against the edge of the pool and got a minor sprain. It hurt so much to use the mouse that I moved the mouse to the other side of the keyboard and flipped the button mappings.

After my right hand got better I realized I liked being able to keep a notepad to the right of the keyboard. It made it easier to jot things down without having to turn away from the computer, so I've used my mouse lefty ever since.

It's funny how many people will see the mouse and "gee, I didn't realize you were left handed" and then get a really puzzled face when I reply "but I'm not".

While I use a mouse at work, I use a trackball at home. Also lefty due to the pool incident.

Darrell Spice, Jr.

[link|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore

New I've got a colleague who does the same.
New Partially ambi-dexterous.
My Dad's left-handed so I've grown up aware of the problems associated with that. He likes his mouse on the left; when I do anything on his PC I have to be left-moused. It's not hard, actually. But I remain more dextrous with my right hand.

Wade, who is aware that "dextrous" comes from the latin for "right (hand)".

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

New Driving in UK.. and other mirror images.
Was surprised at how quickly the 'moving centre' managed to morph over to the mirror-image way = so it ain't "in the muscles" as is often parroted. (At least the clutch/brake pair weren't also reversed! Somehow I think *that* would be as deadly as the Indian motorcycle's backwards throttle (and left-hand-side, to boot!)). Of course, staying in the appropriate lane at round-abouts - requires some other level of coordination; not so easily adapted-to (in my case anyway).

Another test of our built-in ambidexterity:

Take some chalk in both hands. Write your name normally (leftie or rightie).

Now... Put hands close together on board with chalk ready; note how easily you can write your signature with the (off) side being a mirror image ie backwards! yet.. recognizably, with your writing style mimicked down to the details.

Pretty amazing, no?


Ashton
     Not PHB, but users. - (Brandioch) - (27)
         Oh, aye, the users. - (static) - (26)
             My biased comment: Show them a Mac :) - (Meerkat) - (25)
                 Emphasis on "perfect". - (static) - (24)
                     OS8.5? - (Meerkat) - (2)
                         Whoops. - (static) - (1)
                             Bugger. - (Meerkat)
                     No, whoever approved the puck mouse probably wasn't fired... - (CRConrad) - (20)
                         Not fired. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                             There are rumours (once again) of a two-button mouse - (Meerkat)
                         Perhaps. - (static) - (1)
                             It did a good job fulfilling one of iMacs primary objectives - (Meerkat)
                         Goddamn micky mouse - (wharris2) - (15)
                             Buying a 3rd party mouse is sooo difficult and sooo costly -NT - (Meerkat) - (2)
                                 Laptops - (kmself) - (1)
                                     ObMacZealot : Reckon it's less of a prob on the lapdogs - (Meerkat)
                             Nope. Simply put: Logitech Marble *Track*Man Rulez. -NT - (Ashton) - (11)
                                 Nope. Trackballs suck. Period. - (wharris2) - (10)
                                     My seconds will call.. _______and break your thumbs. -NT - (Ashton)
                                     Ah, you haven't had mouse wrist yet... - (lister) - (8)
                                         I just can't control the damn things - (wharris2) - (3)
                                             Takes some getting used to - (lister) - (2)
                                                 Agreement - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                     Nope, trackballs still suck - (tonytib)
                                         That's why I went lefty - (SpiceWare) - (3)
                                             I've got a colleague who does the same. -NT - (CRConrad)
                                             Partially ambi-dexterous. - (static)
                                             Driving in UK.. and other mirror images. - (Ashton)

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