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New Obama picks a fight over taxes
http://www.washingto...GHTMsqH_blog.html
The primary goal of President Obama’s presser, which just wrapped up, was obvious: He was clearly out to pick a major public fight with Republicans over tax cuts for the rich. Obama mounted a surprisingly aggressive moral case for ending high end tax cuts, casting it as a test of our society’s priorities, and argued — crucially — that anyone who fails to support ending them is fundamentally unserious about the deficit.

I only listened to part of it, but for Obama it seemed very aggressive, obviously designed to pick a fight with Republicans over taxes. Obama has obviously decided that tax increases on the rich are both a good idea and will play well with the public. I think he is right.

Jay
New Yep, when in doubt, introduce class warfare.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New ya know mikey needs to pay more taxes
he is interested in buying a plane after all :-)
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New I can't wait to make 250k
so I can get my jet.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New I can't wait to make 100k
so I can borrow your jet
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New You'll need a pilot. I'll fly it for either of you.
New "50% don't pay taxes" isn't class warfare?
New no. thats a fact
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New Wrong. On both counts.
New 46.4% paid 0 federal income tax
awfully close to half...but will give you the benefit of it not being perfectly factual (by a margin of 3.6%)

and nowhere near the "class warfare" mark of calling a 250k earner a member of the corporate jet set.

Nor nearly as disingenuous as talking about "spending" in the tax code.




Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New You're funny.
Tony Snow, from 2003: http://www.foxnews.c...933,75326,00.html

Now, the really troubling part. Our tax code is insanely imbalanced already, with half the public paying nearly 100 percent of the income taxes. This mocks the idea that citizenship demands that each person pull his or her weight. Two generations ago, Americans celebrated success, and urged kids to do well and accumulate wealth. We're now on the verge of a society that cleaves into two classes: Those who pay taxes and those that get tax money from Uncle Sam.


That's not "class warfare"?!? Really?

Oh, I forgot, it's only "class warfare" when the poor sensitive Republican fee-fees are hurt. They can't do their powerful magic and tinkle on the rest of us if their fee-fees are disparaged. Saying that half the country is productive and the other half is looters who only suck on the government teat is just "facts".

<Sheesh>

Cheers,
Scott.
New your neighbors
http://www.wmal.com/...le.asp?id=2225336 must be nice
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New Heh. Non-sequitur much?
Granite Countertops!!!111 Ceramic tiles!!!1111

http://www.washingto...GrZngqH_blog.html

Fairfax County’s affordable housing program provides housing opportunities to our neediest citizens: the disabled, the elderly and the poor. It also provides housing opportunities for lower income middle class working families. By partnering with the private sector and area non-profits, we have been able to leverage County resources to provide people who live and work in Fairfax County an affordable home.

A critical strategy for providing affordable housing alternatives to residents is that these homes are integrated into the community and dispersed across Fairfax County. Doing so prevents the creation of pockets of poverty. The concentration of poverty can perpetuate the causes of poverty, lead to higher crime rates and create unattractive, blighted and unsafe areas in Fairfax County.

Being the most desirable place to live in the region means the high cost of housing can prevent people who work here from also living here. Our affordable housing program helps us meet our goal of having homes available in Fairfax County for our working families, which helps us meet our economic development goals without adding to our transportation problems.

In several of the private communities where Fairfax County owns affordable units, we pay a monthly fee just as other tenants in those communities do. These fees go toward basic services such as maintenance, snow removal, and utilities. They also go to shared amenities. For example, 15 of the 41 condominium developments in which Fairfax County owns affordable units have swimming pools for their tenants.

Fairfax County cannot and will not ask private companies to treat tenants differently based on income. If a child in an affordable unit wants to use the swimming pool with his neighbors, he should be allowed to. We also will not ask private companies to waive such fees and interfere with their ability to be successful. Fairfax County will also not tell these private companies which amenities they can provide in an open, competitive market. These companies are very valuable partners in our housing program and we respect their right to choose which services and amenities they provide their customers and to charge appropriately for those services.

Recent criticism of these fees raises several questions. Should we concentrate our affordable housing with low income individuals and families all together, or integrate them seamlessly into the community as we have done successfully for years? Should we interfere with the free market and tell Fairfax County companies how they should run their businesses, or offer incentives to developers to help us meet our (and their) community’s housing goals?

Or should we completely do away with our affordable housing program and drive lower income and entry level workers out of Fairfax County?


Cheers,
Scott.
New certain parts of >that statement< are.
not the 50% don't pay part, though. That is still factual.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New But misleading
I've had years when I was in that 50%.

Oddly enough, a substantial amount of my income went to the Federal general funds in those years. Unless that money is really going to be paid back to the Social Security fund, in which case Social Security is doing pretty well for a very long time.

Does overpaying Social Security so rich guys don't have to pay on most of their income balance not paying in the other column? Depends who you ask, how you do the math. But "50% don't pay taxes" is not a particulalry honest statement. "50% don't pay Federal income tax except indirectly if the general fund never repays the Social Security fund" isn't as catchy, I guess.
---------------------------------------
I think it's perfectly clear we're in the wrong band.
(Tori Amos)
New Kevin Drum helps break it down.
http://motherjones.c...own-lucky-duckies

FWIW.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Yeah, there's no "spending in the tax code".
http://www.econbrows..._expenditure.html

Quoting from an NBER paper by Burman and Phalup:

One possible explanation for the difficulty in controlling the budget is that a major component of spending—tax expenditures—receives privileged status. It is treated as tax cuts rather than spending. This paper explores the implications of that misclassification and illustrates how it can lead to higher taxes, larger government, and an inefficient mix of spending (too many tax expenditures). The paper then suggests options for reform to the budget process that would explicitly incorporate and properly measure tax expenditures. It concludes by considering ways to control tax expenditures (and other spending) and the special challenges presented by tax expenditures.


Free 27 page early draft is here - http://www.law.nyu.e...cm_pro_068305.pdf

Cheers,
Scott.
New Re: Yeah, there's no "spending in the tax code".
Look at that list. Those are NOT expenditures. The government os NOT spending. Those are deductions from taxes. The government never had any of that money to expend.

It is pure code for changing the terms to allow a tax increase to be called something else...specifically t be called reduced spending (in the tax code).

The fact that this is lost on you tells me the kool-aid has taken full effect with you
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New It's the big picture that matters.
1) If you believe there is no such thing as a free lunch.

2) If you believe that we need government.

3) If you believe that "to spend is to tax".

4) If you believe that it's more efficient in times of GDP expansion to be close to a balanced budget since interest costs are less.

Then a certain amount of money needs to be collected in taxes. If some types of income are not taxed (or are taxed at lower rates), or if some categories of income are excluded or have preferential treatment, then the rest of the tax base must make up the difference.

If Congress does not use the same types of procedures to evaluate tax deductions as tax increases, then tax deductions get preferential treatment.

All of this, taken together, means that yes Virginia there is "spending in the tax code".

Your personal feelings about it don't stand up to scrutiny. You might want to review the "Why I hate your freedom" FAQ mentioned yesterday for more reasons why.

Cheers,
Scott.
New They absolutely stand up to scrutiny
If you don't like how income is categorized, then modify the tax code. They are not expenditures or "spending" because the money is never collected. Period.

Changes in categorization of income that inreases net tax burdens are tax increases..not reductions in spending. Period.

All of the rest of your "points" are irrelevant.

Government is necessary. How we fund it is up to us.

Number 3 is bs. To Spend is not to tax. Look it up in websters.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New I guess you're not a fan of Uncle Milty then?
The other one.

http://www.salon.com...7/milton_friedman

[...]

And he did fear the government. He was a conservative of the old, libertarian school, from the days before the scolds had captured the levers of power in the conservative movement. He hated any government intrusion into people's private business. And he interpreted "people's private business" extremely widely. He detested the war on drugs, which he saw as a cruel and destructive breeder of crime and violence. He scorned government licensing of professionals -- especially doctors, who heard over and over again about how their incomes were boosted by restrictions on the number of doctors that made Americans sicker. He abhorred deficit spending -- again, he was a conservative from another era. He feared that cynical politicians could pretend that the costs of government were less than they were by pushing the raising of taxes to pay for spending off into the future. He sought to inoculate citizens against such political games of three-card monte. "Remember," he would say, "to spend is to tax."

This did not mean that government had no role to play. He endorsed the enforcement of property rights, adjudication of contract disputes -- the standard and powerful rule-of-law underpinnings of the market -- plus a host of other government interventions when empirical circumstances made them appropriate. Sometime empirical circumstances could win Friedman some unexpected allies. Left-wing Mayor Ken Livingstone's congestion tax on cars in central London is an idea straight out of Milton Friedman. Friedman's negative income tax is one of the parents of what is now America's largest anti-poverty program: the earned-income tax credit, which was greatly expanded by Bill Clinton. And, most important, government had a very powerful and necessary role to play in keeping the monetary system working smoothly through proper control of the money stock. If there was always sufficient liquidity in the economy -- enough but not too much -- then you could trust the market system to do its job. If not, you got the Great Depression, or hyperinflation.

[...]


Cheers,
Scott.
New Context.
Doesn't change a thing.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New Heh.
New Jon Stewart's take.
http://www.thedailys...er?xrs=share_copy

Cheers,
Scott.
New "Revolution may not be necessary ...
in England, because of the Anglo-Saxon sense of fair play."
-Karl Marx

It's gone. Here's an old book about what replaced it: http://www.amazon.co...man/dp/0394510232
New "My God, what monsters have we become?"
http://www.dailykos....hanges?via=blog_1

You can just feel their concern for the little people oozing off your screen, can't you? The civilized Rush Limbaugh wants nothing more than to call out "demagoguery." He's really, really against people who try to get one group of Americans to hate other Americans. He hates that. (Note to the reader: please stop laughing.)

What they're talking about is a proposal by the president to have corporate jets depreciated over seven years, rather than the five years provided for now by, yes, a current loophole.

I will allow you a moment to regain your composure, or simply jar yourself awake again after reading that sentence, because this represents the sort of Existential Fucking Threat to the Republic that gets Republicans into a serious lather. Corporate jets depreciating over seven years, rather than five? My God, what monsters have we become? It's all right to nix new school lunch standards because feeding kids healthier food would cost more. It's all right to break labor agreements. Heaven knows it's all right to cut food stamp assistance or unemployment insurance, or tell seniors that Medicare is going away and good luck finding private insurance, pals. Austerity is the buzzword of the day—but tax depreciation over SEVEN years instead of FIVE? To the battlements! The comfortable, leather-appointed battlements!


(Includes a picture of Rush's jet.)

Cheers,
Scott.
New Detail vs posture
Potus was talking in grander terms, that some this loophole closing would save student loans and the FDA...not possible..so the class warfare part was to stir up support for his full suite of tax increases by using this singular example, and the financial impact of this single tax rounds to zero in the discussion, so why use it at all? That part, rush has correct..and is using the correct word.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New Heh. But it's worth blowing up the FFaCredit of the US over.
New Guess then.. yer just another prevert-
Obv. you love being the icon for ALL the excesses of the 'Class' who have forever gamed-the-System and, (via diligent greed-o-nomics)
have made that process of automatic Deep-wealth-transfer --> into a simple algorithm.

S'OK though: there is value! in a public display of such studied disdain for ever viewing the social results of the corporatocracy;
after all, marlowe has evenesced into ____? (wherever it is that those in need of Extreme Unction go ...
to pretend that everyone's out to Get Them. cha cha cha)

You provide a Teaching Experience™, for any who hadn't before extrapolated the significance of those fav slogans
of the Right- 'place to store all that National Wealth':
some Non-USSR-of-A place which (still) harbours and caters-to, No Taxes on Greedheads.
Maybe we'll both be moving, then? (But not to the same destination.)

Carrion;
we need all the giggles which the intransigent afford us, in every mealy-mouthed Yabbut.. which the little grey cells can manufacture indefinitely.
(But you'll never replace My Gramma as the Numero Uno icon of pure Aynish neurasthenia--she was There..
long before your faith in gaming-the-System replaced all those required 'ethics' courses you had to fake.)




I could almost see voting for Palin Cthulhu in 2012 on the grounds that this sorry ratfucking excuse for a republic, this savage, smirking, predatory empire deserves her. Bring on the Rapture, motherfuckers!
-- via RC
New Hook line sunk
You are using the singular term " class" exactly as he intended. And when policy exacts the same toll on those outside of that handful it's just "consequence"

Playing on basic animal instinct works, obviously. Same fundamental reason why Karl was wrong.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New Marx or Rove?
New 1
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New Rove is rarely wrong
He's an evil son of a bitch.
If time travel was invented, a good project would be to kill him in his crib.
But he's rarely wrong.
New lrpd that sucker
If time travel was invented, a good project would be to kill him in his crib.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
     Obama picks a fight over taxes - (jay) - (33)
         Yep, when in doubt, introduce class warfare. -NT - (beepster) - (32)
             ya know mikey needs to pay more taxes - (boxley) - (3)
                 I can't wait to make 250k - (beepster) - (2)
                     I can't wait to make 100k - (boxley) - (1)
                         You'll need a pilot. I'll fly it for either of you. -NT - (mmoffitt)
             "50% don't pay taxes" isn't class warfare? -NT - (Another Scott) - (18)
                 no. thats a fact -NT - (beepster) - (15)
                     Wrong. On both counts. -NT - (Another Scott) - (14)
                         46.4% paid 0 federal income tax - (beepster) - (13)
                             You're funny. - (Another Scott) - (5)
                                 your neighbors - (boxley) - (1)
                                     Heh. Non-sequitur much? - (Another Scott)
                                 certain parts of >that statement< are. - (beepster) - (1)
                                     But misleading - (mhuber)
                                 Kevin Drum helps break it down. - (Another Scott)
                             Yeah, there's no "spending in the tax code". - (Another Scott) - (6)
                                 Re: Yeah, there's no "spending in the tax code". - (beepster) - (5)
                                     It's the big picture that matters. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                         They absolutely stand up to scrutiny - (beepster) - (3)
                                             I guess you're not a fan of Uncle Milty then? - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                                 Context. - (beepster) - (1)
                                                     Heh. -NT - (Another Scott)
                 Jon Stewart's take. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                     "Revolution may not be necessary ... - (mmoffitt)
             "My God, what monsters have we become?" - (Another Scott) - (8)
                 Detail vs posture - (beepster) - (7)
                     Heh. But it's worth blowing up the FFaCredit of the US over. -NT - (Another Scott)
                     Guess then.. yer just another prevert- - (Ashton) - (5)
                         Hook line sunk - (beepster) - (4)
                             Marx or Rove? -NT - (Ashton) - (3)
                                 1 -NT - (beepster)
                                 Rove is rarely wrong - (crazy) - (1)
                                     lrpd that sucker - (boxley)

We get more play than a 6-disc changer in a bitchin' Camaro.
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