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New I should find a Video Toaster and a Betacam
--

Drew
New Or
You could step back and stop bitching.

You have an enormous array of tech in your hands, and you expect it to work damn near miracles without spending more than a few hundred bucks. You want high def studio quality interaction. And you are annoyed someone isn't slaving away somewhere to give it to you for essentially free. And running on your old hardware.

F'n PHP programmers. Did you every try to do a real time video processing loop? Grrr.
New Heh, yeah I know
What I'm annoyed by in the case of Microsoft is they had a perfectly usable application that they ripped and replaced with something that had the latest generation of icons, but without the several years of refinement behind the working one.

And in the case of Linux I'm annoyed that there are about a thousand tools for transcoding various formats, and a few graphical editors, and far too many developers who say, "You can do everything you need from the command line."

Sure, you can do it all from the command line. As long as you don't mind calculating frame counts for transition points, and scaling factors for multiple inputs, and scroll rates for marquee captions, and ... and ... and ...

No, I'm not asking for anything for free. Okay, I'm asking, but I'm not demanding it or saying I expect it. I'd just like to do some hands-on work with a tool that actually does what I want before springing for some hardware that does it fast.



Oh, and speaking of enormous arrays of tech and expecting miracles, a Tivo has more horsepower than the Apollo. (Doesn't everything at this point?) But wouldn't you bitch if they pushed an update that disabled commercial skip?
--

Drew
New Have you been taking misdirection lessons
from Beep?


Oh, and speaking of enormous arrays of tech and expecting miracles, a Tivo has more horsepower than the Apollo. (Doesn't everything at this point?) But wouldn't you bitch if they pushed an update that disabled commercial skip?


If I bought a device to do a certain thing, and it worked, then the manufacturer disabled it, yeah I'd bitch.

If I buy MS windows for anything, I know it has a shelf-life. And so do you. X amount of support for X amount of time. Your price included those updates (or you keep paying), and then your price includes whatever the hell else they want to do. Including replacing apps at will. You knowingly gave them that, and if you didn't know, you do now. MS apps (all vendors) have a lifetime. Library update mismatches will kill them eventually. Virus updates will force the library update.

You either
1) Create an isolated protected environment, and use the machine for ONLY that task, and never update it.
2) Accept you will pay continuously for the right to change the machine (including OS patches). You MUST do this in order to run any other app or network connectivity on this machine. There will come a time when whoever needs to program the particular patch is no longer available, and the app will die.

When was the last time you install something on your TIVO that was not supplied by your manufacturer?

Ok, so get over it. Grow up. Your expectations are silly. You might as well ask for a pony with that. You are just causing yourself stress.
New Somebody's been taking grumpy pills
Yes, I know how Microsoft works. I never said any of this mess was exceptional. That doesn't mean I have to like it when it's my turn.
--

Drew
New grumpy pills?
Not really. This week is been one of my most positive one in a couple of years.

But it has also turned up my political sensitivity meters. To me, political means anyone who attempts to achieve a goal without straight personal effort, ie, one that has to manipulate others to achieve the goal.

And then, if that person's goal contradicts with a class of people that I identify with (note, I can identify with a lot of individual classes on the fly), then my response notches up a bit.

In this case, you want something from a group of people with a particular skillset. I share a very small amount of that skillset, from years ago, and have been following the underlying tech for years. So I know the things you ask for have a variety of blocks, both in licensing fees and in the effort to produce what you want.

Someone has to pay. In the case of the open source side, you know who is paying? Well, if we ignore the various companies that fund it and keep a small group of super-programmers employed, the vast majority are people doing it for their personal goals. You knew this, and it annoys you.

You know what my personal goals are?

Work as little as possible to spend as much time with the people I love. And make sure at least 1/2 the work is interesting new development. Development that satisfies MY goals as well as the boss'.

It's really screwed up from a corporate motivation perspective. Work/family balance is supposed to be weighted in their favor, at least based on what they expect hours and responsibility wise. When they say you need balance, it is because you are already in crisis and it is probably too late, and it is affecting your work.

So, let's think about the subset of programmers who program for fun/personal productivity/to scratch an itch. Some of them have family lives. You want them to make a decision to simply stop whatever is in their life, whatever their priority, whatever, and at least think about what you want. And then make a serious effort to give it to you.

What do you offer to them? When you post how much their program annoys you, you are insulting their children. You expect them to be happy with you? How are you different from a thousand other people who sent them an email whining about some desired functionality without offering anything other then the thanks of a job well done (f'ing pointy haired bosses).

Not grumpy. I spend a huge amount of my time with a 16 year old girl with a sense of entitlement that is mind blowing. And that means I spend a lot of time discussing it with her. I'm GOOD at saying no. This is simply top of mind stuff.
New You're more self-aware than the people I'm talking about
Since we're not talking about Microsoft any more, can I assume you agree (or at least don't take offense to) my characterization of what they're doing?

On the free software side, I've got no beef with anyone saying they're not interested in what I want to do. Fine, I'm not paying them, they don't have to be interested. What's annoying is to be told that what I want to do doesn't need to be done, that no reasonable person would want to do that. And yes, I've seen plenty of people say exactly that.
--

Drew
New No-one is more certain than . . .
. . a person who has no idea what he's talking about.
New Have you stopped to consider...
...that perhaps you're not a reasonable person?

/me ducks and runs for cover.
-Mike

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
New No, that had never occurred to me
--

Drew
New On the MS side
I disagree with you.

They are not required to maintain certain functionality in certain packages. Half the shit doesn't work in the 1st place. They fix something, they break something else. It's part of the game. They get a pass from me. Really.

Because it is YOU. You know better. And I hate when people who know better whine about shit. Sorry.

On the free software side, it becomes a matter of angels on a head of pin. You don't like the response you get, you believe it should be different. Go find a hundred other people who want what you want, kick in $50 apiece, and call the developer back.

Or find you are wrong.

But don't bitch about it.
New "Pick your poison"
One side makes things hard because they believe they'll make more money doing it that way.

Another side makes things hard because they refuse to accept the possibility that any desires different from their own are valid.

Because I'm not paying either side enough to dictate what they'll do, no one has any obligation to care about me. I get that. I really do, whether you believe it or not. (And it sure looks like you don't believe it.) That doesn't mean I don't get to be annoyed and frustrated by the situation.
--

Drew
New Got it
You are woman.

You have a cooking web site.

You need to bitch.

You don't want solutions. Ok. fine. Bitch away.

But keep in mind some day a developer will Google you, see the bitching, and add your list of changes to "Wally's pile of perpetual ignorage"
New Where did you offer any solutions?
Note that I'm not asking you for any, or expecting any from you. But you don't seem to think I want any.

Sure I'd like a solution. My whole point when I started this thread was that I've spent a bunch of time looking for a solution, and found instead all the reasons why I'm not going to get it. And those reasons annoy me.

Right now it looks like the best solution is to find a Mac that can handle AVCHD. I knew when I started that I could always throw money and new hardware at the problem, but I'm trying not to do that.
--

Drew
New Maybe you simply posted in the wrong forum. :-)
I mean, if you'd started this thread in "Flame On" then the direction it took wouldn't have been a surprise.

Wade.

Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers?
A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
New What about this?
http://cinelerra.org/

Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New He has looked at it and tried to use it.
Its gotta lotta deficiencies. Plus the learning curve is great.

I agree. But its the closest he'll get for free.
New On deficiencies
http://renomath.org/ejolson/video/avchd/
The creation of the high definition mpeg2 files from AVCHD source runs at about 15 frames per second on my computer. This means transcoding AVCHD to a format Cinelerra can edit is slower than capturing HDV from tape. AVCHD source can be losslessly authored to BD5 with reencoding necessary only for rendered effects and transitions. Therefore a workflow with essentially zero transcoding is possible. See Lossless AVCHD Editing in Linux for more information about such a workflow.


So what about that lossless editing?

http://renomath.org/...chd/lossless.html
Do not use any transitions or filters. For transitions and filters refer to Editing AVCHD with Cinelerra. [AKA: recursion: see recursion]


This might be changing though:
"I've been working like hell on patching Cinelerra," he told me, as well as using other tools, such as Blender. Montgomery sees one of his short-term goals as getting the overall quality of FOSS video tools improved, while he tackles his more forward-reaching goal: opening up the untamed frontier of video development.

http://www.itworld.c...r-despite-mpeg-la

This is a great development, but the timeline doesn't help me any. Maybe it will pay off in time for the next upgrade.
--

Drew
New Or you could have found a bunch of other people
to fund the change.

I wasn't kidding. I simply don't know if it is worth the effort to you, or if it is possible. I like to see people pay open source developers for specific features.
New Working on that
Well, working on other people to fund things, anyway. Of course, I'm just looking for people to fund me to get the hardware I need.
--

Drew
     Can I take this opportunity to point out ... - (drook) - (46)
         Well, Linux developers develop for . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
             yeah, we have a pool to see when 3par suckage starts :-) -NT - (boxley)
         Well here is my attempt to SOAPBOX. - (folkert) - (39)
             Gah. - (malraux) - (10)
                 Let me tell you about my $4000 486... ;-) -NT - (Another Scott) - (9)
                     Mine was $2184... - (folkert) - (6)
                         486/66 EISA/SCSI. 6 months later it was $1000 less... -NT - (Another Scott) - (2)
                             1992 - (malraux) - (1)
                                 Ah, the good old days! :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                         I remember the first time I saw 500M hard drive - (drook)
                         Hey, I can play this game - (jake123) - (1)
                             I could too, though I'm not sure I really want to. - (static)
                     /hand waves and my $700 esdi drives! -NT - (boxley)
                     Mine was $5K - (crazy)
             Would a Mac desktop be cheaper? - (drook) - (27)
                 On Mac Hardware... - (folkert)
                 Depends on what you want to do. - (Another Scott) - (25)
                     And AVCHD is what I'm looking for - (drook) - (24)
                         Well then... - (folkert)
                         Apple claims FCE4 will do it on an Intel Mac. - (Another Scott) - (22)
                             Yeah, I'll be looking - (drook)
                             probably can however - (boxley) - (20)
                                 I should find a Video Toaster and a Betacam -NT - (drook) - (19)
                                     Or - (crazy) - (18)
                                         Heh, yeah I know - (drook) - (17)
                                             Have you been taking misdirection lessons - (crazy) - (16)
                                                 Somebody's been taking grumpy pills - (drook) - (15)
                                                     grumpy pills? - (crazy) - (14)
                                                         You're more self-aware than the people I'm talking about - (drook) - (13)
                                                             No-one is more certain than . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                                                             Have you stopped to consider... - (mvitale) - (1)
                                                                 No, that had never occurred to me -NT - (drook)
                                                             On the MS side - (crazy) - (9)
                                                                 "Pick your poison" - (drook) - (8)
                                                                     Got it - (crazy) - (7)
                                                                         Where did you offer any solutions? - (drook) - (6)
                                                                             Maybe you simply posted in the wrong forum. :-) - (static)
                                                                             What about this? - (beepster) - (2)
                                                                                 He has looked at it and tried to use it. - (folkert) - (1)
                                                                                     On deficiencies - (drook)
                                                                             Or you could have found a bunch of other people - (crazy) - (1)
                                                                                 Working on that - (drook)
         Here is the Movie Maker you're describing... - (rickw) - (3)
             He found a decent NLVE for Linux... - (folkert)
             I think I already installed that - (drook) - (1)
                 You might want to keep an eye on iMovie. - (Another Scott)

“How do you tell when you’re out of invisible ink?”

- Steven Wright
214 ms