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New Hey, whattaya mean "web company"
As if it is different in non-web companies?

There is a historical mix of old stuff that people have to run, and there is the future.

The tech future will be split. Corp world (servers) will go from a 80% (pulling numbers out of my ass) MS based to < 50%, with Linux simply growing. Desktop will be MS for a LOOOONNNGGGG time. But the lock MS had in the backroom 10 years ago is GONE, and it is never coming back.

Non big corp (really, everything else, ma/pop, isp, small business, medium business, etc) does everything it can to minimize the cost of an entry point for any tech, so the only time MS goes in is when someone SELLS it in. So unless there is a vertical market app that requires it, the small vendors want to maximize their profit, which means open source. Linux rules this world already (email, file, print, web, database, application, etc).

I think the best mix of tech that Lincoln can learn is Web application front end access from windows desktop browser, combined with a decent database setup under Linux such as PostGres. If the language is PHP, then he can use the PHPEd development environment, which means a pretty windows interface combined with a debugger that runs on the back-end Linux box.

So, this gives him:

An environment to actually accomplish stuff that can be cheaply deployed.
Experience with database, apache, and PHP server setup and admin on Linux.
Experience with PHPEd, a decent development environment for a coder.
Ability to program applications that any windows desktop user (client maybe?) can run immediately.

It means he can walk into an interview and demo what he's capable of.
It means he can sell to small business cheaply.

Well?
New Re: Hey, whattaya mean "web company"
Speaking to the other end of the market, enterprise (Oracle, Java, some C++) software is being developed first and foremost for Linux - Tier 1. Solaris Sparc and Windows tier 2. Weird crap like Solaris X86 and such are Tier 3.

Completely agree on the browser, excepting that retail is down to 75% IE. Corporate is still far and away IE.

Here's the elephant in the room, though: Lincoln, hiring managers can smell that attitude of yours miles away. Knowing how antagonistic you get here to people trying to help, and your overwhelming negativity, I wouldn't hire you even if you had exactly what I needed.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Re: Attitude...
That is exactly the same message I've told him time and time again.

That attitude just oozes all over the place when its like his is.
New Re: Attitude...
that's why I didn't forward an opportunity earlier this year, I just couldn't bring myself to subject former coworkers(some of whom I still hang out with) to him.
New OUCH.
That hurts Darrell.

And the mere fact you said it openly here is another thing he needs to see.

Its just to bad, he is so negative. Its the single biggest thing holding him where he is... unemployed.
New Re: OUCH.

Its the single biggest thing holding him where he is.


Wrong. The biggest thing keeping me unemployed for the moment is my last employer had me on 10 year old outdated technology for the past 2 years.




"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."

-- E.L. Doctorow
New Victim with a grudge.
That explains you to a tee.

I see it, many others see it here. The attitude pervades your entire mannerisms.

You emanate negativity, even if you don't think you do.

As Scott also comments, you are alienating a large contingent of people that could help you, but choose not to because of your combative techniques.

You want proof, look at Darell's post.

FYI, my place of work needed a web developer about 3 months ago as we had a surprising departure. We work remotely for everything. I refused to offer you a chance to get the job. Also an FYI, we have another opening expanding... into new areas we typically don't like to go interfacing with .NET and other things like PHP and Ruby. You aren't getting a chance, even if you do find and present a resume and cover letter, your name is on the exclusion list.

That is 3 jobs *JUST* in this thread, imagine how many you've missed else where in this group and abroad.

I'm sorry you are stuck, only you can change that.
New your former employer's HR dept. called me in June
and the discussion ended fairly quickly when they were only offering what the average kid fresh out of college with no experience is getting (according to online salary surveys).




"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."

-- E.L. Doctorow
New Was that more or less than you're getting now?
Just sayin'.
New and is first offer ever final?
answer, no.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New There is no way
that they would have begun to come up near where I used to make considering their starting point. And I had no desire to go that low, after having read enough stories on financial Internet sites that say once you cut your salary below a certain percentage, you WILL NEVER catch up to where you were previously.

I'll cut my salary requirements when my property taxes stop going up the maximum allowed every year (not to mention utilities, food, college tuition, etc).




"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."

-- E.L. Doctorow
New you going to college?
if you are paying for someone else to go tell them to get a job and help out.
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New she does have a job
but teenagers working stereotypical teenager jobs can't earn enough to save anything near what tuition, let alone, books, lab fees, room & board, etc., cost.

She's paying what she can, we're paying what we can, she's got the scholarships, and the rest is loans.




"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."

-- E.L. Doctorow
New that works
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New You need to re-evaluate.
You may never make as much as you used to. full stop.

Why? you were invested in a skill that is no longer in demand.

To the new company, you may even be worse than a new hire because you are coming with baggage. Obvious baggage.

The new reality is, get in, get trained and jump ship to better pay.

You need someone to take a chance on you, and their not going to pay a 15yr experience wage to do that.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New Not only that.
Lots of companies promote from within if at all possible. The most important thing is to get inside. There's nothing wrong with, e.g., starting in the mailroom if there's room to grow. Get inside, make a good impression, and doors can open for advancement.

In lincoln's case, I think that getting a permanent job at even an entry level with an opportunity to move up is a lot better than waiting for a near-perfect fit while time marches on... Even if that entry level turns out to be a dead end, it doesn't have to be a mistake. It is employment to put on a resume (as opposed to a hole) and another point for networking.

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New More good advice that will...
Fall on Deaf Ears.
New Re: More good advice that will...
You presume way too much.

Read my current posts from tonight.




"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."

-- E.L. Doctorow
New Already have
Started this week working for a national bank. One level behind in .NET, no C#, web pages in ASP.Net and HTML, SQL Server 2005 databases. Pay well below what I made in the home town, but almost reaches what I had in the job in oil town. Commute is worse, but that's the way it goes.

So far, I and the other 5 consultants sitting in the aisle spent the first three days sitting around waiting for logins and access rights to be granted. Today we started installing software and internal applications because the techies don't image machines.

Funny thing is that I've been called by 4 recruiters this week - it's like they suddenly learned about my new position through karma, or something or other ...




"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."

-- E.L. Doctorow
New Advice.
Don't blow it.

I wish you good luck.
New work is work, good luck
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
New Good luck, Brian
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Good luck, Brian
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Best of luck.
Keep the attitude under your hat and a smile on your face when things get messy. Sometimes you just have to take the bull by the tail and face the situation...
New Good deal!
Make the most of it. Don't ignore the headhunters either :-)
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
New Excellent news. Good luck!
New I don't get it.
You're unemployed now, right?

Now, I can understand someone with a trade (i.e. a programmer) not particularly wanting to take shelf-stacking or burger-flipping work, but to be inflexible on salary?

In this financial and economic climate? That's a recipe for being unemployed for a long time.

FWIW, I'd flip burgers rather than do nothing.

The thing you need to realise - and that which you seem singularly impervious to - is that all the feedback you're getting here, hurtful and unpleasant as it may be, is the kind of advice that is absolutely priceless because anyone who's got any kind of contractual arrangement with you, be it colleague or employer, won't give it for fear of all sorts of litigatishit.

So man the fuck up, take responsibility for your situation, and start working on positive things that will move you forward.
New Post #35342




"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."

-- E.L. Doctorow
New Best of luck with it!
New Do you really think
that I'm exactly the same way in an interview as I am here?

Seriously, are you that delusional?




"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."

-- E.L. Doctorow
New Attitude flows through.
You may not think it does, but it does. The negativity, the combativeness, these will be apparent. It is very rare that I hire someone who turns out to be completely different than they appeared in an interview. Attitude is pervasiveness, and word choice, anecdotes you tell, how you present in body language... these will all show.

Additionally, there is a whole group of highly connected IT people here that you are managing to alienate on a daily basis.

"Delusional". Case in point.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New Let's assume you aren't
Let's assume you present well.
Let's assume you wow them.

And then they hire you.

And in 2 week your boss tells you to work on some legacy code.
And you tell him to f'off because they did that in your last job and kept you pigeonholed for years.

And even if you don't overtly respond, you will seethe. You are a seether. So you will be shitty to work with.

I gave you a shot years ago. I seem to recall you interviewed over the phone with me and couple of other people. Total skill mismatch, ie: you didn't offer us anything we could use, and your attitude when this started to become clear was hostile.

You need to keep in mind a hiring manager might have 1/2 a dozen positions in the pipeline, requiring all different kinds of skills. You are interviewing for something, it may be a mismatch, but a position that opens up down the line might be a good match. That 1st interview puts you at the TOP of the list for the next interview if you behave, are nice about it, and quickly accept that you are mismatch for the current one. If you try to fight it, they'll shitcan your resume for all positions since you are difficult to work with.

I had to apologize to my coworkers for your behavior. So stop telling people you are much better during interviews. You aren't. This was a phone screen run by a couple of people who were already favorable to you and it went bad fast.
Expand Edited by crazy Aug. 25, 2010, 06:48:11 AM EDT
Expand Edited by crazy Aug. 25, 2010, 06:53:15 AM EDT
New ^------- This.
Regards,
-scott
Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
New shoot me an email with the specifics
I'd like to check my notes from back then.




"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."

-- E.L. Doctorow
New Its doesn;t matter your opinion or view of the subject.
What matters is what the Employer sees.

I very sorry you can't get that through your head.

At least 4 jobs in this thread alone.
     So I'm preparing my laptop for the roadtrip - (lincoln) - (83)
         throw linux on it if you just need - (boxley) - (82)
             He won't... - (folkert) - (80)
                 Recommend application development software on Linux - (lincoln) - (79)
                     Looking from the wrong direction - (drook)
                     Java. - (malraux) - (9)
                         Java looks like something worth considering seriously... - (Another Scott)
                         Thread-jack. - (static) - (3)
                             java is the new basic - (boxley)
                             Java's worth as a language: - (malraux) - (1)
                                 That's a good point. - (static)
                         FINALLY - SOMEONE HERE OFFERS A GOOD SUGGESTION! - (lincoln) - (3)
                             That suggestion was made back then. - (folkert) - (2)
                                 WRONGO! - (lincoln) - (1)
                                     Google "site:iwt.mikevitale.com C#" works. -NT - (Another Scott)
                     jboss spring tomcat - (boxley)
                     oh yeah - (boxley)
                     On the other hand - (pwhysall)
                     I said everything I needed to say now and back then. - (folkert) - (64)
                         You never helped in the first place - (lincoln) - (63)
                             Poor form, lincoln. - (Another Scott) - (44)
                                 Re: Poor form, lincoln. - (lincoln) - (43)
                                     "... and teach himself other stuff." -NT - (Another Scott)
                                     I see you are a victim... - (folkert) - (41)
                                         Go talk to your developers - (lincoln) - (40)
                                             Developers for the company I work for... - (folkert) - (3)
                                                 well, I think Hell has frozen over. - (lincoln) - (2)
                                                     That wasn't your question to me though. - (folkert)
                                                     Re: well, I think Hell has frozen over. - (folkert)
                                             Did you honestly think... - (beepster) - (35)
                                                 Hey, whattaya mean "web company" - (crazy) - (34)
                                                     Re: Hey, whattaya mean "web company" - (malraux) - (33)
                                                         Re: Attitude... - (folkert) - (26)
                                                             Re: Attitude... - (SpiceWare) - (25)
                                                                 OUCH. - (folkert) - (2)
                                                                     Re: OUCH. - (lincoln) - (1)
                                                                         Victim with a grudge. - (folkert)
                                                                 your former employer's HR dept. called me in June - (lincoln) - (21)
                                                                     Was that more or less than you're getting now? - (pwhysall) - (20)
                                                                         and is first offer ever final? - (beepster) - (19)
                                                                             There is no way - (lincoln) - (18)
                                                                                 you going to college? - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                                     she does have a job - (lincoln) - (1)
                                                                                         that works -NT - (boxley)
                                                                                 You need to re-evaluate. - (beepster) - (11)
                                                                                     Not only that. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                                                                         More good advice that will... - (folkert) - (1)
                                                                                             Re: More good advice that will... - (lincoln)
                                                                                     Already have - (lincoln) - (7)
                                                                                         Advice. - (folkert)
                                                                                         work is work, good luck -NT - (boxley)
                                                                                         Good luck, Brian -NT - (malraux)
                                                                                         Good luck, Brian -NT - (malraux)
                                                                                         Best of luck. - (hnick)
                                                                                         Good deal! - (beepster)
                                                                                         Excellent news. Good luck! -NT - (Another Scott)
                                                                                 I don't get it. - (pwhysall) - (2)
                                                                                     Post #35342 -NT - (lincoln) - (1)
                                                                                         Best of luck with it! -NT - (pwhysall)
                                                         Do you really think - (lincoln) - (5)
                                                             Attitude flows through. - (malraux)
                                                             Let's assume you aren't - (crazy) - (3)
                                                                 ^------- This. -NT - (malraux)
                                                                 shoot me an email with the specifics - (lincoln) - (1)
                                                                     Its doesn;t matter your opinion or view of the subject. - (folkert)
                             It'll work fine - (drook) - (1)
                                 and if you want to be a bit more spritely - (beepster)
                             512? Not a problem. - (static)
                             my developers reside within shouting distance - (boxley) - (13)
                                 Well, that's not a big shock - (jake123) - (12)
                                     How so? - (drook) - (5)
                                         Well, indirectly quoting an old prof of mine - (jake123) - (4)
                                             no, disagree - (boxley)
                                             Hmm, not sure - (drook) - (2)
                                                 Re: maintenance mode - (jake123) - (1)
                                                     Don't think you can plame PHP for that :-) -NT - (drook)
                                     That's a rather negative viewpoint. - (static) - (5)
                                         s/PHP/any programming language -NT - (drook) - (4)
                                             Well, yes. - (static) - (3)
                                                 There's a line I remember from back before PHP won* - (drook) - (2)
                                                     Indeed. - (static) - (1)
                                                         And you can be in and out of a framework at the same time - (drook)
                             My sofasurfer has 512MB... - (pwhysall)
             That's probably the best advice. - (Another Scott)

30%!! My God!! How did you survive the ordeal?!?
510 ms