Thread-jack.

Post #331,339 by static 8/15/10 3:34:38 AM Reply	Thread-jack. I've been learning Java where I work as we're in the middle of a multi-project task to migrate from PHP to Java. The new website was built on the side of an existing Java website used by another business group and uses Hibernate, Struts2, Tomcat servlets and I don't know what other bits-n-pieces. I've also got a colleague who likes wants to add Spring to the mix, which doesn't appear difficult (Spring is already kind-of installed). Oh, and the development environment is IntelliJ, which isn't totally awful, but does try to be a little too helpful sometimes. and it doesn't help that the source code repository is an elderly CVS (no, those-in-charge don't want to upgrade to SubVersion). So. The thing is that I'm not entirely thrilled with Java. Maybe it's because I've been solely in dynamically-typed languages for some years, but I can't find any "wow" about programming in Java. I've had a few "well, that's nice" moments, such as discovering some neat stuff with passing around collection objects. But the fact that it's normal for the IDE to generate oodles of code to pass things around is uncomfortable. Is there something about Java that I'm not getting? Where should I be looking or how should I be looking at it all to find the "a-ha" moment? Perhaps it's just that I got thrown into a mature codebase rather than learning and building things from clean? Wade. Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers? A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.
Post #331,342 by boxley 8/15/10 9:48:05 AM Reply	java is the new basic no aha there, its slow creaky but you can find a ton of half assed programmers who think they know what they are doing and a shitload of cacked libraries that dont quite work as advertised The aha moment is when you start to understand java puke and what it is really pointing at
Post #331,352 by malraux 8/15/10 11:55:59 AM Reply	Java's worth as a language: 1) it's much better than C++, and not much slower if at all 2) ecosystem, as Box points out 3) a large number of people know it Compared to a scripting language, it sucks for the individual programmer. If you know what you're doing. But in a business environment it's productive enough, you can find software to get done what you need to get done, and you can find people to do it. As far as "neat" features go, that comes mainly from the classloaders. Products like GigaSpaces and Coherence are really nice, and Java lives in that world much better than does C++. You can't find products like those (that I know of at least) for things like Ruby, Python, or Perl, not with the same commercial support and bulletproof nature. Up to a certain size project, without needing to take business drivers like personnel availability or commercial support into account, I would personally choose Python over Java. However, I have seen first hand the problems that a lack of a large trained resource pool can cause with non-mainstream languages. Raw technology isn't everything, much as we as technologists would like to think so. The last 6 months as an enterprise solution architect have been eye-opening to me. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #331,361 by static 8/15/10 5:06:08 PM Reply	That's a good point. You point medoicre programmers at PHP and you get shit programming, which I've seen multiple times. I saw the same thing years earlier with C, COBOL and FORTRAN. At least medoicre programmers can learn how to make the IDE do the clever stuff for them. This would be the same reason corporations like .NET. That means the Really Interesting Java programming is happening inside things like Terracotta. Wade. Q:Is it proper to eat cheeseburgers with your fingers? A:No, the fingers should be eaten separately.

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