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New Bu ... bu ... bu ... bu ... bu ... bu ... bu ...
Forget about better than the local TA. If an ESL* student can tell an American law student how to improve their writing, we're setting the bar pretty fucking low.


* English as a Second Language
--

Drew
New Intuitive but.. maybe not:
Current crop of students is deemed by (so-) many to be so execrable in math, science, how to cook, reason, sew or fix a loose screw on anything; those ESL folk have demonstrated a Willingness (Interest? Dedication?) to spend mondo hours on drills to approach fluency; our noobs appear to lack such dedication, at least beyond fulfilling minimal assignments to Get-By.

So..? Unclear, I wot.




I could almost see voting for Palin in 2012 on the grounds that this sorry ratfucking excuse for a republic, this savage, smirking, predatory empire deserves her. Bring on the Rapture, motherfuckers!
-- via RC
New Then import the graders and flunk the current crop of locals
Bonus: Maybe then lawmakers -- mostly lawyers themselves -- would start caring about immigrants taking U.S.-ians jobs.


I can't decide who I'm tweaking with that line.
--

Drew
New Disagree
Not at the general sentiment. But that it might actually be useful.

But: The fact is that the acceptable level of english writing in 10th grade NJ in what seems to be a decent school system is TERRIBLE.

http://education.sta...A&datasection=all

I review the writing that is to be submitted, I cringe. I see the mark-up that the teacher returned, and I cringe some more.

Seems that 3rd grade level spelling, grammar, and general thought processes are acceptable, as long as there is a hint the student thought about it and made some effort.

Something tells me that they don't expect it to get much better in the next 2 grades.

I've interacted with a variety of ESLs. Some are atrocious, others not so much, in communicating while speaking. But I find their writing is often several notches above their speaking, especially at the professional level.

So this might make sense.

Maybe.

And this is icing:


"An outside grader has no insight into how classroom discussion may have played into what a student wrote in their paper," says Marilyn Valentino, chair of the board of the Conference on College Composition and Communication and a veteran professor of English at Lorain County Community College. "Are they able to say, 'Oh, I understand where that came from' or 'I understand why they thought that, because Mary said that in class'?"
...
Professors and on-site teaching assistants, she says, are better positioned to learn enough about individual students to adjust their tone to help each one get his or her ideas across on paper. "Sometimes kidding them works, sometimes being strict and straightforward works," Ms. Valentino says. "You have to figure out how to get in that student's mind and motivate them."


That is key. And she is wrong. These are adults in college. Not children. They are expected to be able to communicate something to someone in the field. Just because someone who knows them gives them a pass, it does not mean they got it right. It is far better to have a disinterested 3rd party grade in a vacuum, then it is to have a bunch of individualized predjudices applied to the papers.

If the professor doesn't cover something required, and they miss it on a paper that needs it, then the 3rd party is the perfect person to read the paper, and catch the missing info. Hopefully, everyone in the class misses it. When then can be used as feedback to the teacher.
Expand Edited by crazy May 9, 2010, 12:35:25 PM EDT
     Now they're outsourcing the grading of college papers - (lincoln) - (4)
         Bu ... bu ... bu ... bu ... bu ... bu ... bu ... - (drook) - (3)
             Intuitive but.. maybe not: - (Ashton) - (1)
                 Then import the graders and flunk the current crop of locals - (drook)
             Disagree - (crazy)

It’s the extra touches.
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