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New article was confusing to me
If I picked Nader for a first choice, could I also pick him for the runoff slot? If not then a fist choice for an independant is just a protest vote as the second choice would be the money call. Not sure if this is the answer.
One difference from Florida and Alaska the parties are so entrenched in Florida the candidates have no interest in meeting or discussing things with independants. I know there is a race in West Palm but I have received no material from any candidate and there is very little coverage in the paper. I guess us non afiliated voters just dont matter. In Alaska where 60% plus of the voters are non affiliates both parties work to get the message out.
thanx,
bill
There is no difference between a "settler," "soldier," "secular," or "Chassidic Jew." The target is the JEW.
\ufffd Harvey Tannenbaum
New They should have given some examples
Your two votes have to be for different people. For the Florida election, here is how it would play out.

You vote for:

1) Gore / Nader -- No majority winner. Your second choice is not one of the top two. Your first choice applies for the runoff. Gore

2) Nader / Gore -- No majority winner. Your second choice is one of the top two. Your second choice applies for the runoff. Gore

3) Nader / Bush -- No majority winner. Your second choice is one of the top two. Your second choice applies for the runoff. Bush

4) Bush / Nader -- No majority winner. Your second choice is not one of the top two. Your first choice applies for the runoff. Bush

True Nader supporters could vote for him without worrying about splitting the liberal vote. If he doesn't take a simple majority, yourn second choice is used in the runoff. True Gore supporters would vote for him and, if he is one of the top two, he still gets your vote in the runoff.

This is one of the few times where the simple description, "Just vote for who you really want, and put your second choice second," really would work. Understainding why (if you're cynical enough not to believe campaign promises) is a little non-intuitive.
I can't be a Democrat because I like to spend the money I make.
I can't be a Republican because I like to spend the money I make on drugs and whores.
New how about gore/bush ?
There is no difference between a "settler," "soldier," "secular," or "Chassidic Jew." The target is the JEW.
\ufffd Harvey Tannenbaum
New Been trying to figure that out
I was assuming there would be two likely leaders, but that's only because that's how it usually is with the current system. What happens when three candidates each get ~30%?

Hmm, this seems like a good system for breaking a two-way tie, but not so much for three or more nearly equal candidates. I guess you could run scenerios all day and come up with lots of permutations, but this system would immediately give third party candidates a better shot. I would love to be in the position of having to figure out the best way to choose amough three or more good candidates.
I can't be a Democrat because I like to spend the money I make.
I can't be a Republican because I like to spend the money I make on drugs and whores.
New First choice, second choice.
I think it goes like this;

1. You pick your first and second choice for the office.
2. No one gets a majority.
3. Eliminate the candidate with the least votes from the pool.
4. If your first choice is still among the candidates, that's who you vote for, if not then the second choice gets your vote.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 until one candidate has a clear majority of votes.


With this much manure around, there must be a pony somewhere.
New Ahh, got it
Now try to explain recursion to the Floridians who punched the ballot multiple times.
I can't be a Democrat because I like to spend the money I make.
I can't be a Republican because I like to spend the money I make on drugs and whores.
New No need
People don't need to understand the mechanism of how the voting works. It is sufficient for them to just understand, It is a little complicated, but your first vote is for the guy you want, and your second for the guy you'll live with.

Kinda like it is today, except that now there is no point in trying to vote for the guy you want. (Which is how politicians nobody really wanted manage to stay in power.)

Cheers,
Ben
"... I couldn't see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything."
--Richard Feynman
New Good point
It needs to be made simple. Punch cards won't do it I'm thinking. Well maybe. You'd have to have all candidates listed twice. One set for first choice and another for second. If they pick the same candidate for both first and second, doesn't matter. In effect, they will have opted not have a second choice. Some actual testing of ballot designs with a representative sample of voters to insure the crap is understood needs to be done. Try out multiple designs until something is found with an obviously effective design.
With this much manure around, there must be a pony somewhere.
New There is a simple resolution
Stop thinking of it as a race to 50%.

Instant runoff is really progressive elimination down to one person.

Run round 1. Drop the person with the fewest votes. Anyone who voted for that person drops to their second choice. Run round 2. Drop the person with the fewest votes. Anyone who voted for that person drops to their second choice, or out of the voting pool. Run round 3, etc.

In practice people just stop when someone has over half the votes remaining in the pool, because you are guaranteed who will be the last standing.

There is no perfect voting mechanism. Yes, there are scenarios where it produces no good answer. But it works a heck of a lot better than what we use.

Cheers,
Ben
"... I couldn't see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything."
--Richard Feynman
     Election reform bubbling up from grass roots efforts - (Silverlock) - (29)
         article was confusing to me - (boxley) - (8)
             They should have given some examples - (drewk) - (7)
                 how about gore/bush ? -NT - (boxley) - (6)
                     Been trying to figure that out - (drewk) - (5)
                         First choice, second choice. - (Silverlock) - (3)
                             Ahh, got it - (drewk) - (2)
                                 No need - (ben_tilly)
                                 Good point - (Silverlock)
                         There is a simple resolution - (ben_tilly)
         Will people understand how it works? - (drewk) - (17)
             Were's our Oz contingent? - (Silverlock) - (1)
                 Sorry, don't normally pay that much attention to this forum. - (static)
             It is really quite simple - (ben_tilly) - (14)
                 Death of the two-party system - (Ric Locke) - (5)
                     Potentially a problem - (JayMehaffey) - (3)
                         Military power outside borders? - (wharris2)
                         POTENTIAL problem? - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                             The Robot or the Dummy? - (nking)
                     Bring back the Whigs! - (nking)
                 180 from Jackson. - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                     May have been the right solution for the time - (JayMehaffey)
                     Money == Power - (Brandioch) - (5)
                         Why no such system will ever be devised here. - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                             Cynical you are, Grasshopper. - (Brandioch) - (3)
                                 Even less than that. - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                     In a static system, I'd agree with you. - (Brandioch) - (1)
                                         Yes. - (mmoffitt)
         <cartman>Kick ass</cartman> - (Brandioch)
         Let's watch this.... next. -NT - (Ashton)

And on drums: The Pope!
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