Re: Hmmmm.

Post #31,119 by rsf 3/6/02 7:33:50 PM Reply	Re: Hmmmm. Well, if we're going to get into "should", then asking if he had sex with another willing adult should not have been asked. This line of questioning was entirely appropriate. It is alleged that he used his position as Governor to prey upon those underneath him. The Lewinski affair established the fact that Clinton had no inhibitions when it came to using his position to get sex. It establishes character which is admissible. Such questioning would be inappropriate if the allegations were unrelated to sex. Asking Cheney about sex during an Enron investigation would be inappropriate. I think you're taking this a little too personally, then. That's between him and his wife. When he's getting blowjobs in the Oval Office while on the phone with a Congressman, it's my business too. He's at work. He's working for us. If I was get'in some at work with one of my employees, my boss isn't going to walk away. Is it too much to ask the President follow the same standards as the rest of us? But I'm more upset with Hillary for putting up with him. Hmmm, why? She has her own life and her own agenda. How do >YOU< know that this isn't okay with her? The problem is I do think she's ok with it. Their marriage seems to be more of a business partnership rather than a marriage base upon love and respect. That's just one more reason that I don't want her in the White House. I want a leader that thinks more like me. BTW, I thought the Women's Movement - which I assume she supports - said that you don't have to put up with this kind of crap from your husbands. What kind of role model is that? Hmmm, maybe I'm more cynical than you but I don't see any difference in the >PEOPLE< in that job than the >PEOPLE< in any other job. I know cops that take drugs. I've heard of priests that molest boys. You're focusing on what the >POSITION< should be and not the >PERSON< in that position. I'm cynical too, to a degree. But the people who obey the law, who have a conscience, out number those who don't. Just because there are bad cops, priests, managers, programmers, etc. doesn't mean it's ok to have a bad President too. Or are you saying you're content with Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, and friends....? Ray
Post #31,141 by Brandioch 3/6/02 11:00:27 PM Reply	Different world views. This line of questioning was entirely appropriate. It is alleged that he used his position as Governor to prey upon those underneath him. From what I recall, Monica was as much a predator as he was. If some woman has plans to have sex with the President, just because he is the President, does that mean he used his position to get sex? Or did she want sex with the President to have had sex with the President (no matter who was in that job)? As for "character", that would indicate that anyone who has sex with someone in the same organization could be deemed a "predator". (unless both people are the same level). I don't think that says anything about some one's character. When he's getting blowjobs in the Oval Office while on the phone with a Congressman, it's my business too. And that's where we differ. I don't care. I don't think his sex practices are part of his job description. If I was get'in some at work with one of my employees, my boss isn't going to walk away. Problem with your analogy. He wasn't caught. Monica told Linda who taped it and turned it over to his political opponents. If you were having sex with an employee and your boss didn't catch you, would you feel that s/he was wrong if s/he fired you when a friend of the woman you were having an affair with told your boss that the woman told her that you were having an affair? You + her ----> her friend ----> your boss ----> fires you. The problem is I do think she's ok with it. And I do not see that as a problem. At least, not one that concerns me. Their marriage seems to be more of a business partnership rather than a marriage base upon love and respect. That's just one more reason that I don't want her in the White House. And you have the right to not vote for her if she runs. Just because there are bad cops, priests, managers, programmers, etc. doesn't mean it's ok to have a bad President too. True. But why try to hang one bad cop and let all the other bad cops go free? Why are we focusing on the actions of one cop when the practice has been common throughout the cops throughout the years? Why focus on THIS cop NOW? In a word, "politics". Or are you saying you're content with Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, and friends....? Bush would be cool to party with. In the past. Cheney and Ashcroft are too uptight and controlling to be cool. As for their politics, I don't agree with most of their positions. But the key is to look at the process and the pattern. Politics is populated by people. I don't agree with the people in now, I didn't agree with Clinton then. Like I've said before, Right/Left or Republican/Democrat or Conservative/Liberal are meaningless terms. I look at individual rights/responsibilities and society's rights/responsibilities and the political process that affects these. The current regime will, on the whole, move the nation further from where I would like to see it. But so did Clinton. So have ALL of the presidents for the last 50 years. We're steadily losing our individual rights. But it doesn't have to be that way. I just don't think that right now is a good time to adjust it. The industrial/ilitary complex has too much political power and too much invested in keeping us in a continual state of war. Now, while revolutions are great for regaining your freedoms, war with another nation/whatever usually results in fewer rights at home. So, "content"? Nope. But...................... The price of freedom is eternal vigilence.
Post #31,155 by wharris2 3/7/02 5:29:16 AM Reply	Re: Different world views. From what I recall, Monica was as much a predator as he was. I wouldn't exactly call her a predator (there's no tabloids yacking about her preying on other men), but she was certainly a willing participant. Others were less so (his groping of Kathleen Willy the day her husband committed suicide?) As time went on, though, she apparently became a bit concerned and saved up some evidence (the stained blue dress). Monica was a willing participant and is apparently an exhibitionist (eg, her HBO special) despite her whinings about how she wants the media to stop focusing on her. But what she is or does has nothing to do with Clinton's perjury. Where each demon is slain, more hate is raised, yet hate unchecked also multiplies. - L. E. Modesitt
Post #31,164 by Simon_Jester 3/7/02 8:45:52 AM Reply	That's not true either... From what I recall, Monica was as much a predator as he was. I wouldn't exactly call her a predator (there's no tabloids yacking about her preying on other men), but she was certainly a willing participant. Didn't Monica's first..er...affair have to do with a married doctor? (I seem to recall tabloids mentioning that fact.) As time went on, though, she apparently became a bit concerned and saved up some evidence (the stained blue dress). Frankly I'm more interested in what the legal system was willing to do to demand her to testify. Didn't they arrest her mother and threaten to charge her? Hell, look at what they did to [link\|http://www.juliehiattsteele.com/\| Julie Hiatt Steele ]
Post #31,192 by Brandioch 3/7/02 11:40:57 AM Reply	That's what I meant about "character". Monica seemed to be intent on sex with the President. Whether you'd classify her as a "predator" or not depends upon your definition of the word. Clinton did not "prey" on her. She wanted it. So, asking Clinton about sex with Monica establishes what about his character? That he'd have sex with someone who wanted to have sex with him? How is that relevant to the case? But what she is or does has nothing to do with Clinton's perjury. sigh Whatever. I thought the "perjury" was when he offered a different definition for "sex" that didn't cover what he and Monica did. Or am I wrong on that? So, asking about Monica did nothing to establish whether he'd rape someone (I've had sex with willing women and I don't rape people) or anything else. So why was it asked?

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