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New I had an idea tonight
Anybody see Who Killed the Electric Car? (If you haven't yet, go get it.)

GM insisted nobody wanted the EV1. They're doing the Volt new from the ground up. So ... take those plans for that worthless EV1 ... and give them to Chrysler. Tell them to start cranking those sumbitches out as fast as they can.
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Drew
New so who gets to cover the spread?
between the cost of an ev1 vs what you need to sell them for to get people to buy. My understanding that GM was upside down on every one they sold
New Your understanding is wrong
They flat-out refused to ever sell one, at any price. You could only lease one, and that after getting a personal lesson in why you didn't really want one, did you?

When they refused to extend the leases, multiple people and groups offered to buy the cars, asking GM to name a price. GM refused, trucked all the cars to a junkyard, and crushed them. They only consented to allow an auto museum to keep one under the condition that it was never started.

Had they built them in bulk, costs would have come down. If they built them today the batteries would be decades of development more advanced. (And they could go 300 miles on a single charge when they stopped making them.)

GM didn't want anyone to buy the car. They created the most unappealing ads ever used for cars. They refused to let people sign up for waiting lists. It was a PR stunt that got out of hand, because no one told the engineers on the project that it was supposed to fail.
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Drew
New didnt know that, thanx
New I haven't seen the movie, but...
it seems too conspiracy-minded to me.

http://www.greencar....-electric-car.php

17. Battery costs are believed to have been $20,000 to $30,000 for the electric vehicle models manufactured by automakers during the 1990s test marketing period. While no auto manufacturer has officially stated actual battery costs, back-channel discussions with those involved in these programs indicate these cost figures are realistic. The EV1's T-shaped battery pack surely fell within this range. While it's true that mass production volume can significantly decrease costs for many components, battery cost was so great that volume could not overcome this problem at the time ... it would only result in more profound losses.


http://www.cbsnews.c.../main543605.shtml

Those commercials boldly announced, "The electric car is here."

But General Motors built only about a thousand EV1's, available only in California and Arizona. General Motor's Ken Stewart says few people wanted a car that had to be plugged in every hundred miles or so.

"After ten years and investing over a billion dollars we think its time to move on," says Stewart.

When the EV1 was introduced California was setting tough new standards for cutting air pollution from cars. But since then GM and other automakers have gone to court delaying those standards. With the immediate pressure gone, the EV1 is going too.


I remember when GM was expecting their new FWD Olds/Buick/Cadillac coupes were going to be a "billion dollar car" in the 1980s. They were expecting sales of the order of 50k cars at $20k each. If they really spent $1B over 10 years on the Impact and EV1 programs (and yeah, I know how corporations can move costs around), and they really only made 1k of them, then its easy to see that their heart wasn't in it. If the batteries really were $20-30k, then imagine the cost of all the other expensive bits...

GM hasn't ever really been about cutting-edge engineering. They're about marketing and controlling costs. Compare Harley Earl's dream cars with the stuff they actually sold - it's nothing new. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley_Earl

I suspect that since CARB changed the rules and didn't require ZEVs, GM felt it could kill the program. They've rarely been sentimental about technology they develop, and their lawyers probably convinced them that it wasn't worth the (small) risk to let the customers keep them. Plus, I'm sure they didn't want Toyota or VW to get one...

My $0.02.

Cheers,
Scott.
New I'd have to see it again to get the details better
But for the batteries, they interviewed a guy who has multiple patents to his name that have made huge money in multiple fields. He had battery technology that he sold to GM for -- he thought -- the EV1 program. As soon as they owned the rights, they shut down the factory and stopped R&D.

"General Motor's Ken Stewart says few people wanted a car that had to be plugged in every hundred miles or so."

No, and red herring. The EV1 could go 200 miles on a charge when it first shipped, up to 300 by the end of the program. So "every hundred miles or so" was fudging the truth. And every time someone tried to get on the waiting list, someone from GM would call them and do a "survey" with questions designed to turn them off.

Such as: "Would you be willing to have as your only vehicle a car that can't tow a trailer? How happy would you be having to stop every hundred miles to charge a car for several hours?" Only after doing the survey could you put your name on a list. Yet somehow thousands of people still got on the list. What other car do they try to talk you out of?

If it sounds like a conspiracy theory, they present quite a bit of evidence that there was, in fact, a conspiracy.
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Drew
New I'll have to check it out. Thanks. :-)
New Could be deja vu for GM.
http://www.lovearth....telydestroyed.htm

The electric streetcar, contrary to Van Wilkin's incredible naïve whitewash, did not die a natural death: General Motors killed it. GM killed it by employing a host of anti-competitive devices which, like National City Lines, debased rail transit and promoted auto sales.

This is not about a "plot" hatch by wild-eyed corporate rogues, but rather about a consummate business strategy crafted by Alfred P. Sloan, Jr., the MIT-trained genius behind General Motors, to expand auto sales and maximize profits by eliminating streetcars. In 1922, according to GM's own files, Sloan established a special unit within the corporation which was charged, among other things, with the task of replacing America's electric railways with cars, trucks and buses.
Alex
New Yeah, seen that story before
I doubt more than a fraction of a percent of the people who saw Who Framed Roger Rabbit know that the scheme behind it all was based on real life.
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Drew
     What it's like inside Chrysler today. - (Another Scott) - (10)
         Sounds like a slow implosion. -NT - (a6l6e6x)
         I had an idea tonight - (drook) - (8)
             so who gets to cover the spread? - (boxley) - (7)
                 Your understanding is wrong - (drook) - (6)
                     didnt know that, thanx -NT - (boxley)
                     I haven't seen the movie, but... - (Another Scott) - (4)
                         I'd have to see it again to get the details better - (drook) - (3)
                             I'll have to check it out. Thanks. :-) -NT - (Another Scott)
                             Could be deja vu for GM. - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                 Yeah, seen that story before - (drook)

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