Post #29,704
2/26/02 12:06:20 AM
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Request for critique
Hi all! I'm building my business's website now, and would like a critique on the overall layout. That would be the [link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org|Consultation Troughton] website. For those of you that don't want to have to choose between English and French, use the [link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english|English home page]. Not all the pages have content yet, but there's enough stuff there that you should get a general idea of what's going on. The site is pretty heavily CGIed, so if anyone has any performance issues, I'm definitely interested in hearing about it. If anyone here is interested in some Object REXX classes for building web site indices, well, I've got some code you can use:). One of the things I intend doing once I get the basic bugs out is to include a "web site tech notes" section, where the software used to drive the site can be downloaded... along with some general rants about legitimate application of html:). So, feel free to pound on it; I'd really like to know how well it ends up standing up. I got everything pushed back quite a bit by having a HD up and croak on me... if you're wondering where I've been it's been because I'm rebuilding the whole thing from scratch. You'll probably notice that the addresses below are not offering a great deal (under construction)... I've been spending most of my time trying to get my business off the ground. On the plus side, things are actually going... I've made some sales, I hope to have more soon, things are not entirely grim:). While the web site and ftp site don't have a lot to offer, the email address below does work. Thanks! --
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* Jack Troughton jake at jakesplace.dhs.org *
* [link|http://jakesplace.dhs.org|[link|http://jakesplace.dhs.org|http://jakesplace.dhs.org]] [link|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org|[link|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org]] *
* Montr\ufffdal PQ Canada [link|news://jakesplace.dhs.org|news://jakesplace.dhs.org] *
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Post #29,710
2/26/02 12:47:05 AM
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It's nice and clean.
(This is brief - just come back from work after holidays and there's a bit of catching up to be done...)
'Clean; is the word that keeps springing to mind - not cluttered, no Flash, no rubbish.
The only thing I would mention is that the opening page sometimes says CT is a company "We can provide you", but other times an individual "an IT worker". Anyway CRC has an enviable talent for spotting those kind of things.
But yeah, overall, I thnk it's pretty cool, and best of luck with the business!
On and on and on and on,
and on and on and on goes John.
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Post #29,747
2/26/02 9:30:25 AM
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agreed, never admit it is just you on advertising
"I'm selling a hammer," he says. "They can beat nails with it, or their dog."
Richard Eaton spy software innovator
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Post #29,766
2/26/02 11:08:34 AM
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Yes, don't be an obvious one-man show.
s/years of experience as an IT worker/years of IT experience/
Alex
"Of course, you realize this means war." -B. Bunny
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Post #29,789
2/26/02 12:39:56 PM
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Re: Yes, don't be an obvious one-man show.
Ok, this one has been taken care of. Thanks! --
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* Jack Troughton jake at jakesplace.dhs.org *
* [link|http://jakesplace.dhs.org|[link|http://jakesplace.dhs.org|http://jakesplace.dhs.org]] [link|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org|[link|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org]] *
* Montr\ufffdal PQ Canada [link|news://jakesplace.dhs.org|news://jakesplace.dhs.org] *
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Post #29,719
2/26/02 3:24:13 AM
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Nice page
However, you may want to consider the suggestions made [link|http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fct-mtl.dhs.org%2Fenglish%2F&charset=iso-8859-1+%28Western+Europe%29&doctype=HTML+4.01+Transitional|here].
Also, I would consider putting the two blocks of text at top left and right in boxes of some description.
Peter
Shill For Hire
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Post #29,767
2/26/02 11:10:52 AM
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Nice job, Peter!
Alex
"Of course, you realize this means war." -B. Bunny
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Post #29,796
2/26/02 1:01:28 PM
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Re: Nice page
Ok, I've done the validation, and cleaned up the bits pretty much. There's one part which will never validate: the nav menu on the left. I'm using a "trick" with <dl> and <dt> tags... actually, those of us with a sense of history should appreciate this trick; it was the one used on the original IWeThey fora to create the threading display. Thanks for the heads up on the validation checker. I actually thought of it a week or so ago, and then forgot it again in the rush to get this thing up and running. --
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* Jack Troughton jake at jakesplace.dhs.org *
* [link|http://jakesplace.dhs.org|[link|http://jakesplace.dhs.org|http://jakesplace.dhs.org]] [link|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org|[link|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org]] *
* Montr\ufffdal PQ Canada [link|news://jakesplace.dhs.org|news://jakesplace.dhs.org] *
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Post #29,731
2/26/02 6:22:38 AM
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I like. It has a professional look.
Imric's Tips for Living- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Post #29,744
2/26/02 9:08:28 AM
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Nit: margin
On my system the text is running right up against the scroll bar on the right. Since the whole page is in a table anyway, it ought to be fairly easy to add a single (maybe 10-15px wide) column to the right.
Otherwise, the "clean and professional" look is nice.
We have to fight the terrorists as if there were no rules and preserve our open society as if there were no terrorists. -- [link|http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/opinion/BIO-FRIEDMAN.html|Thomas Friedman]
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Post #29,798
2/26/02 1:03:16 PM
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Re: Nit: margin
Done. I've added a column with a width of five percent; the entire table is laid out in percentages instead of absolute values so that it will scale up and down to different resolutions (hopefully) well. Thanks for the suggestion... go take another look and let me know what you think! --
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* Jack Troughton jake at jakesplace.dhs.org *
* [link|http://jakesplace.dhs.org|[link|http://jakesplace.dhs.org|http://jakesplace.dhs.org]] [link|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org|[link|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org]] *
* Montr\ufffdal PQ Canada [link|news://jakesplace.dhs.org|news://jakesplace.dhs.org] *
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Post #29,809
2/26/02 1:37:34 PM
2/26/02 1:39:17 PM
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Yup, more readable
Why don't major sites so this? One hour after asking for a critique you've already gotten and incorporated improvements. (Well, starting from a decent base probably helped.)
Hopefully we're approaching the day when businesses stop trying to impress us with their web design -- unless that's what they're actually selling -- and put up something that looks as professional as this.
Hope it works for you.
I can't be a Democrat because I like to spend the money I make.
I can't be a Republican because I like to spend the money I make on drugs and whores.
Edited by drewk
Feb. 26, 2002, 01:39:17 PM EST
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Post #29,771
2/26/02 11:40:43 AM
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OK, here goes...
I'll go through it page by page, in roughly the same order as your left-hand navigation menu (and site map -- hey, that's your first bonus point, for those two elements being in synch! :-) - The main page ([link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/|[link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/]]):
- As Peter said, perhaps the two text blocks in the upper corners should be in some kind of delimiting boxes -- I can't say for sure, though. It partly depends on the answer to my next consideration: Should the first (and longest) lines be split in two so as to leave the logo more unencumbered, or are you intentionally going for a bit of a "portal" (or "vault") effect, with them framing the logo? If so, then I suppose both boxes and linesplits are *not* what you want. Further, should the services you offer ("network...", "workflow...", etc) perhaps be capitalised? That's not a given, either -- perhaps you've tried it, and found there were too many capitals for it to look good? If so, disregard this too. (This goes for every page, not just this one, of course.)
- In the (.PNG-format) logo itself, the word 'Consultation' is nice and sharp, but 'Troughton' is a little fuzzy around the edges (or is this so only on my screen?). It's probably (or at least I guess it is) some kind of text-to-graphics conversion artifact -- maybe it comes out better if you move your name one or two pixels in some direction and try again? (I really like the slightly Escherian "CT" graphic though! :-)
DamnThank you, Meerkat, for putting the pressure on me to be the proof-reader here... :-) I certainly can't find any fault with your language here, Jack; at least not from the syntax-and-grammar angle. From a style-and-content viewpoint, the impertinent Antipodean already mentioned how "as an IT worker" clashes with "We can provide you"... And that's the only fault I can find with it, too.
- The 'Contact' link in the last paragraph is a dud; the URL is [link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/company/contact.html|[link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/company/contact.html|http://ct-mtl.dhs.o...contact.html]], but should apparently be [link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/company/contact.html|[link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/company/contact.html|http://ct-mtl.dhs.o...contact.html]] in stead -- you dropped the 'english' bit.
- The 'Company' page ([link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/company/|[link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/company/|http://ct-mtl.dhs.o...ish/company/]]):
- In the second sentence, "stand our customers in good stead" -- are you sure it shouldn't be "in good steed" in stead? Hmm, naah, probably not -- see the 'in stead' in my previous sentence. I'll defer to you native English-speakers on this one; anyway, that was the only pure-language thing I even wondered about.
- The we/I thing works much better here. Funny, isn't it -- could it be because you're talking about yourself in the third person, as "Mr. Troughton"? I don't know, but this is heartening: It shows that you can get it right on the main page too. (Albeit not necessarily by using the same technique there as here.)
- The 'Contact' link (cf my comment on the Site Map, below) works OK.
- The News page ([link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/news/|[link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/news/|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/news/]]):
- Are the down-to-the-minute posting times ("12:31pm on Sunday", "8:57am on Friday") on each item perhaps too much information; don't they make the page look just a little bit too "fussy"? I'd say the day -- preferably with a comma in between, like "Sunday, 24 Feb 2002" -- is enough accuracy for this purpose. Contrariwise, the technical notice at the foot of each page ("Last updated: 2002/02/24 12:36:41") can very well be down-to-the-minute as far as I am concerned; it's out of the way, doesn't repeat more than once, and is in a smaller font too. (If anything, perhaps drop the seconds from it... :-)
- Uh, this is perhaps a stupid question, but... from your top item, "ct-mtl Website development proceeding" -- what does 'ct-mtl' mean? Sure, I can guess the 'ct' part (Heheh... :-), but what's 'mtl'; some canadian form of "Inc." or "Ltd"? It's in your URL too -- in your domain name, that is, so it's obviously something to do with your company, but... Oh, waitaminnit -- Montreal? Hmm, anyway, you may want to get a "real" domasin name of your own, in stead of this dhs.org, whatever that is; something like "throughton.com" or "throughton.ca" ("throughton.co.ca"?). (Hope you can afford that.)
- Finally, depending on how many new(s) items you put up here and how often, you'll probably want to put an "Old News" (Heh! :-) or "News Archive" page under this one some time, and move stuff to that so this one doesn't grow too huge... If you do, remember to include that one on the Site Map, too!
- The main Products page ([link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/products/|[link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/products/|http://ct-mtl.dhs.o...sh/products/]]): Not much to say...
- The main eComStation page ([link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/products/ecomstation/|[link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/products/ecomstation/|http://ct-mtl.dhs.o...ecomstation/]]):
- Ultra-nitpick: The desktop image ([link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/images/desktop.png|[link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/images/desktop.png|http://ct-mtl.dhs.o.../desktop.png]]) shows the same page where the image is linked from -- but apparently an earlier version, because the text in the large image isn't quite the same as what surrounds the thumbnail picture... ;^)
- Somewhat less outrageously unreasonable nitpick: In the third paragraph, you talk about "third party addons" -- that should, I think, be 'add-ons', i.e, with a hyphen.
- From the list of reasons to buy eComStation:
eComStation is easy to use.
eComStation is easy to use... Uh, repeat repeat much repeat repeat much? That second line needs a little re-working, I'd say. This bit, further down, though:eComStation is reliable.
eComStation is a very reliable system... is different, IMO: The repetition isn't exact; there's enough variation there for the text not to jump off the page and clobber you around the ears around the ears.
- From the bit about viruses, etc: "your business's data" -- what, I tohught you Canucks would write that in Little Dumpy Mrs Windsor's English, as "your business' data"? I could be wrong, tho, and either way, it's no biggie.
- Getting tired, just a quick look at the version-specific pages:
- On the Standard Edition page, you mention "Stardock System" -- I thought that maybe it should be "Systems", plural, with an 's' at the end... But on their home page, they call themselves "Stardock Corporation"! On the Stellar Frontier page ([link|http://www.stardock.com/products/sf/|[link|http://www.stardock.com/products/sf/|http://www.stardock.com/products/sf/]]), OTOH, the copyright notice says "Stardock Systems, Inc." Weird -- and more their foul-up than yours, it appears.
- On the eComStation Pro page, in the last paragraph, you write "If [...] them eComStation Pro is right for you!" That's a typo; you obviously meant to write "then", with an 'n'.
- The Upgrade Protection page looks fine as-is.
- Hmmm... From the main eComStation page on "downwards" (i.e, in the version-specific ones "under" it, too), the Prices link drops out of the navigation bar on the left. Is this by design? If so, then it's debatable (IMO) whether that's a good design; if not, then it's a bug. About the Prices page itself, there is of course not much to say... At least not yet! :-)
- Likewise, the supply of Services looks a little paltry, so far. ;^)
- The Site Map ([link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/sitemap/|[link|http://ct-mtl.dhs.org/english/sitemap/|http://ct-mtl.dhs.o...ish/sitemap/]]):
- On the first two lines (of the "body proper", not counting the repeating header and headline), you have "Canadian source for eComStation news" followed by "Canadian eComStation source" -- a little too repetitive?
- But that's as nothing, compared to the phrase "Consultation Troughton" -- you have that on TEN out of fourteen lines! (This time, including the headline.) OK, you want to "brand" your site, everybody says one should... but isn't this a little too much?!?
My overall impression of the site: Nice, clean, logical -- good work. Sorry I've mixed in a few more general comments among the page-specific ones, under the page where I first noticed them; hope it doesn't make this critique too messy and hard to read. N.B: I think I've followed most of the internal links, but none of the external ones (except for Stardock); I've only "checked" those to the extent that the URL that showed up in the status bar of my browser looked "sensible". HTH! Christian R. Conrad
Of course, who am I to point fingers? I'm in the "Information Technology" business, prima facia evidence that there's bats in the bell tower. -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=27764|Andrew Grygus]
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Post #29,819
2/26/02 2:10:15 PM
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Re: OK, here goes...
Whew! Well, I started by doing a point by point, but got lost in the nested unordered lists:). Anyway, I've incorporated most of the issues you spoke of... if you'd like to take a look, let me know if there's any further refining I can do:). Thanks a lot for the exhaustive review! --
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* Jack Troughton jake at jakesplace.dhs.org *
* [link|http://jakesplace.dhs.org|[link|http://jakesplace.dhs.org|http://jakesplace.dhs.org]] [link|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org|[link|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org]] *
* Montr\ufffdal PQ Canada [link|news://jakesplace.dhs.org|news://jakesplace.dhs.org] *
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Post #29,815
2/26/02 1:55:42 PM
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Indentation and bullets on Site Map page
The (excessive) identation does not match site (at 2002/02/26 14:00). YMMV. :)
Also the last bullet on the English Site Map has the following last bullet:
* Accueil - Bienvenue \ufffd Consultation Troughton, votre source primaire d'information de l'eComStation \ufffd Qu\ufffdbec!
Alex
"Of course, you realize this means war." -B. Bunny
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Post #29,822
2/26/02 2:15:04 PM
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Re: Indentation and bullets on Site Map page
Well, about that last bullet... currently, the French side of the site has but one page. After I get the basics hammered out on the English side, I'm going to have the site translated into French. The site map is going to show both sides of the site to each other... my way of promoting l'approchement des deux solitudes... :). So, once I get the French side growing a bit more, you'll see that it will make more sense:). I also did it to keep the grumblings of the w3c html validator down to a dull roar on that page... however, I'm not going to let a pathological attention to detail be my personal hobgoblin... which do you think is better? It's very easy for me to switch back and forth between the two... --
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* Jack Troughton jake at jakesplace.dhs.org *
* [link|http://jakesplace.dhs.org|[link|http://jakesplace.dhs.org|http://jakesplace.dhs.org]] [link|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org|[link|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org|ftp://jakesplace.dhs.org]] *
* Montr\ufffdal PQ Canada [link|news://jakesplace.dhs.org|news://jakesplace.dhs.org] *
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