"Invisible hand" just another way of saying greed.

Post #29,344 by Silverlock 2/22/02 8:59:02 AM Reply	"Invisible hand" just another way of saying greed. Not really the most ethical of guiding principles, is it? [link\|http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12447\|[link\|http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12447\|http://www.alternet...toryID=12447]] With this much manure around, there must be a pony somewhere.
Post #29,388 by wharris2 2/22/02 1:01:41 PM Reply	Flaw in the argument The "invisible hand" also requires full information. Enron conceiled a lot of its business practices behind a veil of complex accounting sleighs-of-hands. Without full disclosure, the "invisible hand" becomes the "invisible misinformed hand". Where each demon is slain, more hate is raised, yet hate unchecked also multiplies. - L. E. Modesitt, from his Recluse series
Post #29,417 by kmself 2/22/02 2:47:54 PM Reply	Parity, not complete There's a lot of literature in economics on information assymetries. This is the real problem. "Complete information" is a chimera and red herring. What's required is that both sellers and buyers in a market have something resembling equivalent data. Note that in most markets this isn't the case, but other pressures often balance out the equation. Though there are famous cases where they don't. Retail gas and milk prices are two recent famous examples. `-- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] [link\|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/\|[link\|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/]] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?`
Post #29,452 by Ashton 2/22/02 8:52:46 PM Reply	Given that point, internal communication is still apt to become unworkable -as with Enron, when the scams of dummy Corps and Cayman dealings are of the sort that - the CIEIOs dare not reveal much of the existing structure, even to officers who need to know: lest they spend even longer in jail, later after the skimming has been done and the workers raped - and they have become News - for 15 minutes. (Yes a pipe dream - that last improbable Justice) Ashton
Post #29,594 by kmself 2/25/02 2:36:54 AM Reply	On transparency, and complexity as the enemy I'm having a conversation with a friend regarding what works about free software. One issue that's crucial, IMO, is the principle of transparency, and the idea that complexity is the enemy of programmers. I believe the same principles carry over elsewhere. In business and politics, as in software, transparancy may increase embarassment from time to time, but it also does a hell of a job of keeping things straight and level. I'll note indirectly that the present administration, in its Enron dealings and elsewhere, is attempting to skirt just this transparency. `-- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] [link\|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/\|[link\|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/]] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?`
Post #29,689 by Ashton 2/25/02 9:43:06 PM Reply	'Transparency'.. Good.__ Yup, not all slogans are bad ;-)
Post #29,399 by bepatient 2/22/02 1:40:18 PM Reply	Interesting... ...that the author blames all of this on "the invisible hand" while showing law after law that proves that the hand isn't really in play. She also uses examples that show what happens when laws and disclosure are incomplete. And I would say that the overall state of our economy compared to the others in the world would be a testament to the success of the invisible hand...even if we have some spectacular individual failures along the way. (Failures, I might add, that may prove to be so because of violations in the principles surrounding a market economy) Ah well...interesting read anyway. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #29,438 by marlowe 2/22/02 5:19:04 PM Reply	Don't know nuthin' `bout no invisible hand. But the western system of free enterprise works far better than anything else anybody's ever come up with. Don't argue with even a qualified success, unless you've got a better idea. Which you haven't got. (By the way, the difference between criticism and whining is whether or not you've got a better idea.) Now theories as just how and why it works... that's a whole `nuther thing. I never did find the notion of enlightened self interest very plausible. But never mind. The point is, it works somehow. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Truth is that which is the case. Accept no substitutes.
Post #29,490 by Silverlock 2/23/02 5:32:24 PM Reply	Nickel With this much manure around, there must be a pony somewhere.

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