What?

Post #293,330 by bepatient 9/20/07 10:02:16 PM Reply	What? Are you saying that moveon is the democratic party? Because the democratic party is trying not to say that. Sitting on her hands and not saying anything is NOT growing a spine, its cowardice. Growing a spine would be saying "damned right I agree" OR "they should shut up". She's riding the fence. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #293,332 by crazy 9/20/07 10:15:38 PM Reply	Damn close Moveon seems to represent the majority of democratic opinion out there. On the other hand, Hillary got burned bad enough the 1st time around when she played health queen and thought she was above political compromise. So, here's the deal. This is primary season. Her goal is to coast through, pandering a BIT to the far left, but no too much, and gain the nomination. It is VERY important not to say too much to piss off the middle of the road undecided people who will have to make the swing vote in the final election. If it pissed you off that she's straddling the fence, too damn bad. You weren't voting for her anyway no matter what she said. I don't mind at all.
Post #293,334 by Another Scott 9/20/07 10:35:11 PM Reply	Indeed. Asking Hillary to play the game of denouncing an ad that she didn't place is even less meaningful than demanding that all Republicans denounce Congressman Goode's [link\|http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/12/20/lawmaker.koran/\|comments]. I expect that MoveOn.org got a lot more hits and more donations as a result of the ad than any other bit of print advertizing they've done. They should be giving their headline writer a bonus, even though it was childish IMO. The right is trying to make Hillary is this generation's Ted Kennedy. She knows enough not to play the game by the Republican rules. Cheers, Scott.
Post #293,346 by Silverlock 9/21/07 7:48:09 AM Reply	"Betray us", just quoting the troops. ----------------------------------------- Atheism is a religion in the same sense that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Post #293,348 by bepatient 9/21/07 8:56:57 AM Reply	2 completely different things. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #293,357 by Ashton 9/21/07 5:18:52 PM 9/21/07 5:23:50 PM Reply	FWIW - Cindy Sheehan's response re MoveOn ad [Ed. Belonged 'neath top post /crazy -from whence I clicked Reply. I do no make mistrakes.] Yes, yes I. Know. {sheesh} that she is deemed by the cognoscenti to be naively in search of an actual Authentic Reasessment (!!) of how the whole fucking US political establishment needs to be reinvented; nevertheless, she has often the most concise view of Naked Emperors and their bloviating Watchers (nor - as is evident here - is she without reservations on various MoveOn tactics, etc. etc.) That we Shall Not reinvent Anything which is counter to the sources of largest PAC$, the Top 0.1% -- goes as much without-saying as, ~ 'the US is a sick-sicko nest of blind historically-iggerant mass-consuming xenophobic narcissists'. Would that MORE, not fewer.. parents of these dis-honored dead (ARE there any others, yet ???) could muster some variety of focussed passion against the diseased troglodytes we elevate, simply because we are repeatedly too inept to observe the evident signs of their diseases - in advance. September 21, 2007 General Betray-Us and MoveOn.org Cindy Sheehan I have often been critical of MoveOn.org, basically because I feel, for the most part that they support Democrats to the detriment of democracy. However, MoveOn.org was a big help to me at Camp Casey in August \ufffd05 and organized the thousands of candlelight vigils that occurred across the country. I will always be grateful to them for that. I had a policy when my children were younger. I would always try to catch them doing something \ufffdright\ufffd (sharing, being kind, etc) and I would praise them and give them a treat. In that vein, I have to give my 100% support to MoveOn.org in regards to their right-on ad in the NYT that has become even the object of a Senate denouncement. It must be hard for MoveOn.org to have 21 Democratic Senators vote to denounce the ad [sucking-up? Again?] when MoveOn.org has been so supportive of the party. However, I don\ufffdt think that it\ufffds appropriate for the Senate to be voting on newspaper ads, when it is a clear 1st Amendment right of anyone in our representative republic to place such ads, whether one agrees with them or not, and with almost half the Senate Dems voting to denounce MoveOn\ufffds freedom of speech and the Dem leadership taking impeachment \ufffdoff the table\ufffd and giving BushCo more latitude to spy on us, I wonder which part of our Constitution the Dems will defile next? Today, George, in his unbridled and un-matched arrogance and just abject stupidity called the MoveOn ad \ufffddisgusting.\ufffd What I find more disgusting is a cowardly Commander in Chief and all of his supposed underlings lying to our country and the world and sending our young troops to fight, die, be wounded and kill innocent people when they were too \ufffdbusy\ufffd to do the same in their mistake of a war: Vietnam. What I find disgusting is CNN (where I just saw Eli Parisier of MoveOn debate a pro-war person) rarely criticizes the occupation or shows the tragic consequences of this war and they are raising money so a poor Iraqi boy can have reconstructive surgery on his badly burned face. That is great, but what about examining the reasons little Youssif was burned in the first place and start calling for an immediate withdrawal of troops? What about the millions of other Iraqis who have been wounded or displaced? Who is telling their stories and raising money for them to be whole and have homes? What I find disgusting is General Betray-Us allowing himself to be used as a political force field for the lying administration and lying himself. Sectarian violence is not down 80%, the General Accounting Office report and the fact that hundreds of Iraqis are killed every month 50,000 leave their homes on a monthly basis directly contradict those \ufffdfacts.\ufffd The only reason some places are safer in Iraq is because the neighborhoods have been ethnically cleansed and the sectarian militias are providing security to small geographic areas. In the very violent south; Shi\ufffda Mahdi are fighting Shi\ufffda Badr. It is a disaster that needs to be faced and solved now, not put away until the spring or prolonged so Dems can get the White House back in '08. General Betray-Us has not only betrayed America and his oath of service, but he has betrayed the very troops he should care about more than being an \ufffdass-kissing little chicken-shit\ufffd to a Commander in Chief who has spent years betraying the troops. It is time to truly support our troops and start withdrawing them immediately. Not to \ufffdpre-surge\ufffd levels but to \ufffdpre-invasion\ufffd levels. It is time to listen to the people of Iraq and force the mercenary killers and other contractors to leave and give the people of Iraq back their jobs (50% unemployment rate in some areas, some areas higher) and their country. The occupation of Iraq is a disaster and I applaud MoveOn for moving a little closer to the true \ufffdanti-war\ufffd movement and encourage them to come with us farther. Anyone who is concerned with the rapid slide to fascism should be supporting MoveOn in this battle. Anyone who cares about democracy over Democrats (or Rethugs) should join me in supporting MoveOn in this particular struggle and in bringing MoveOn more fully to the table with the peace movement. Thanks MoveOn for speaking for the majority of Americans and please stick to your so-called guns. The struggle is worthwhile! [link\|http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=7wi5n3zxB6fazA1H0seTAwm%2B7LrpYbM%2F\| Donate to GSFP and the Camp Casey Peace Institute] Subscribe to our Listserve] Edited by Ashton Sept. 21, 2007, 05:23:50 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #293,358 by Seamus 9/21/07 5:33:40 PM Reply	This reminds me of what Keith Olbermann had to say [link\|http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20896378/\|Olbermann to Bush: \ufffdYour hypocrisy is so vast\ufffd] ... \ufffdAnd I was disappointed that not more leaders in the Democrat party spoke out strongly against that kind of ad. \ufffdAnd that leads me to come to this conclusion: that most Democrats are afraid of irritating a left-wing group like Moveon.org or more afraid of irritating them, than they are of irritating the United States military.\ufffd \ufffdThat was a sorry deal.\ufffd First off, it\ufffds \ufffdDemocrat-ic\ufffd party. You keep pretending you\ufffdre not a politician, so stop using words your party made up. Show a little respect. Secondly, you could say this seriously after the advertising/mugging of Senator Max Cleland? After the swift-boating of John Kerry? But most importantly, making that the last question? So that there was no chance at a follow-up? So nobody could point out, as Chris Matthews so incisively did, a week ago tonight, that you were the one who inappropriately interjected General Petraeus into the political dialogue of this nation in the first place! Deliberately, premeditatedly, and virtually without precedent, you shanghaied a military man as your personal spokesman and now you\ufffdre complaining about the outcome, and then running away from the microphone? Seamus
Post #293,365 by Ashton 9/21/07 6:58:52 PM Reply	I find it surprising that Olbermann is still on.. Given the Times. I get to see him occasionally / friend with cable. (I'd think he needs a better editor, given the length of some of his rants.. except that, unlike most of us -- even his filler digressions are so often al punte, too.) Hypocrisy -- if ever there were a Better Single Word summing up the Peeple, their Leader and the process by which they choose each other - I can't imagine that word. We have a whole fucking year to hear reiteration of the spineless defending the jellyfish VS the chicken hawks defending their, 'I'll-hold-your-coat: let's see you and him fight forever'. And I've seen two replays of exactly the same mindless button-pushing (proven to be just as effective, Each Time.) We appear incapable of memory. Now it is more grotesque, louder.. atop the utter boring refrain. Only.. this time around there's no Smothers Brothers or Laugh-in [General Bull Right] to be cancelled - so I'm waiting for wimpy-MSNBC's 'reasons' when Olbermann gets the axe. Hoped to be able to see this all as comedy, but the recent inundation of WW-II reminiscences (what.. with no 'anniversary' thing?) reminds what is at stake, now again: acquiescing to Brown Shirts. Wonder if PBS could do a dramatizarion of It Can't Happen Here -??- despite [link\|http://www.saukherald.com/ftp/lewis/stories.html\| this opinion] of problems with today's short attention span "The content and observations are still as fresh and crisp as they were in 1920, said Jim Umhoefer, writer and member of the Sinclair Lewis Foundation. Umhoefer said the writing style is harder to read for today's audience due to the wordiness."Main Street is the perception of one individual on small-town America," said Paul Theisen, mayor of Sauk Centre." I don't think his perception was correct. I don't think it ever did exist the way he portrayed it." That's re Main Street, but ~ for the other. Other problems - relating the pre-'30s milieu to people who have no idea who Father Coughlan, (the radio preacher model) was (nor G\ufffdbbels, nor..) Oh well. One Year in repetition purgatory: we are All sentenced to that, without trial and no appeal. Pics of lots of dead 21 yo's on Lehrer closing screen, too - like just now. We have no shame.
Post #293,367 by Seamus 9/21/07 7:27:05 PM Reply	He is signed until 2011 according to Wikipedia I don't have cable, but I watch his countdown clips on the [link\|http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/\|Countdown] website. Seamus
Post #293,369 by Ashton 9/21/07 8:28:40 PM Reply	Hmm, there's a thought - Even on dial-up - it can thrash away while doing chores, thought the ratio:visual minutes is laughable. Hard to imagine him wanting to stay that long (?) but his contract could always be bought out ..if screaming evangels are at the studio HQ, with burning faggots. :-0

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