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New More whining about Ubuntu.
I recently came across an article in [link|http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=201000451|Information Week] whining that he couldn't easily get Ubuntu installed on a laptop. I've had some trouble with Ubuntu, off and on, but I thought he was unfair. (E.g. I would always try to create my own partitions before doing an install just to be sure of where the OS was going, so it didn't kill Winders).

Well, tonight, I decided to try to update Kubuntu on my T41 laptop. I tried to do a full upgrade using Adept (or whatever it's called). It downloaded 130 MB of stuff, but was unable to replace some things so little if anything was changed. I thought, "Oh well; I'll just burn a new CD one of these days."

Then I decided to look at what MEPIS was up to, and I saw a pointer to [link|http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6170488551.html|this] (by SJVN, from July):

SimplyMEPIS, a very popular desktop Linux, is going to change back to using Debian Linux for its core from Ubuntu. In March of 2006, MEPIS founder Warren Woodford, decided to switch to Ubuntu from Debian for the next version of SimplyMEPIS, version 6.0.

The plan was to use Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (Long Term Service), aka Dapper Drake, as MEPIS' foundation.

Woodford made this move because Ubuntu has a six-month stable release cycle that will enable MEPIS to offer its customers a dependable release schedule, Woodford explained at the time. "The switch to the Ubuntu pools was made to provide our users with a more stable underlying system," he said.

Things have changed. "Dapper was not updated in the way our users expected," Woodford said. "Personally, I think the Ubuntu people spoke sincerely and accurately, but perhaps ambiguously. So there was a misunderstanding among users. The fact is Dapper was updated with security fixes, but not with new versions of the applications."

[...]


So he'll be building [link|http://www.mepis.org/node/13980|MEPIS 7.0 on Debian Etch].

Is X/K/Ubuntu broken for those of us who want to be able to do in-place upgrades every few months at the most?

Cheers,
Scott.
New I don't think it's broken.
It might go strange occasionally but briefly in a big upgrade, but other than that it's fine. I have Feisty Fawn on my work laptop; it was originally installed as Dapper and upgraded. Everything upgraded fine.

Wade.


Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please



-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

· my ·
· [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] ·
· [link|http://yceran.org/|website] ·

New Thanks. I'll see about trying again this weekend.
New apt-get dist-upgrade
It didn't happen when I went to Feisty, but on another PC when I upgraded from Hoary to Breezy, it took two dist-upgrades for it to all sort itself out. I think the dependancy calculation can get very complex.

Wade.


Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please



-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

· my ·
· [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] ·
· [link|http://yceran.org/|website] ·

New I am sure there will be some things...
But in general, it should be fine.

Yes there will be issues like AG's whining little crap... and stuff where people have their head up their ass. In general though Mepis basing it on Dapper was not a wise decision.

Dapper was told to us to be, Long Term Support. Not Long Term Support with ALL NEW STUFF added in for good measure. It was a "Peg in the Wall" that continually moves down. You put your peg in the wall and ride it down for upto 5 years. For anyone to base a Leading Edge type of set of choices like Mepis usually does, was not a genuinely made decision.

6 month releases, are for the current set of packages. Dapper isn't going to get new kernels or X or Firefox or so on... it is going to get maintenance and security updates. That is it.

IMO, never did make sense for a Desktop setup to go based on Dapper.

Scott, your updates should eventually be fine, though you will probably have some chasing to do.

Why do people keep going off to other distros and keep coming back to Debian? It happens all the time, and continues to happen.

Listen, why not just swallow the SID pill those that really use Debian do in the first place. For a desktop solution, I used SID. For my personal Servers, I use Sid. For machines REALLY important to me, I use well Stable or Testing (and lag behind in updates).

You all give Windows WIDE BERTH in this area (and OS2 for some of you)... yet ONE LITTLE hiccup and you are off biatching about "Linux it's not for Desktops" and even others "Linux its crap for Servers"

I am done trying.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
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New Hold on there, pardner.
I'm not complaining at all. I would have been pleasantly surprised, but not shocked, if everything had upgraded without a hitch. I was able to do an upgrade of Kubuntu a few weeks after release without issues. Tonight I was just seeing what would happen.

It was prompted by a discussion at work with someone who is trying to get a new Mac laptop and thinking about running Parallels or VMWare to run the occasional Windows program. I hadn't booted Kubuntu in a while so I decided to do so.

Few get as annoyed with Windows as me; but it takes a while to get comfortable enough to make the jump. I've had good luck with MEPIS, but the fact that it's such a small distro makes me nervous. Ubuntu has the mindshare, but a few minor things seem to happen now and again that I don't know enough about yet to fix. Raw Debian sounds safest, but developing the knowledgebase and comfort level to get things done with confidence will likely take more time than I can give right now.

Don't be too hard on Andrew. Please.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Oh, don't worry about me.
My hide was tempered on Usenet back in the olden days.

This month I've prepped several Debian servers for shipment to Florida and Michigan. RAID, terminal servers, SAMBA, ftp, ssh, bar code printers, tape drives, etc. - mostly upgrades replacing SCO Open Server boxes. Some I built, others are Dells.

The accounting VAR I configure for knows they go in without a hitch and he's sending me a couple more Dells next week - but this time I have to figure out how to make a USB flash driver work - I hope that's not "an interesting problem".

Fortunately I don't have to worry about "in place upgrades" - these machines won't be touched for 5 to 10 years - baring hardware failures.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New I don't think that means what you seem to think it means.
Greg laments:
You all give Windows WIDE BERTH in this area...
AFAIK, to give something a wide berth means to avoid it, not to treat it preferentially as you seem to be trying to say.

HTH!


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
New Oh, I think he's just having a bad evening.
We certainly do give Windows a "wide berth". He forgets my 2003 and Beyond article and my recent attacks on Vista - which make my criticisms of Linux seem rather pale.

Unfortunately I can only give Windows a wide berth in my own office. Most of my clients are stuck with it. When the software you run your business on requires SQL Server, well, you feed the beast (no, there are no viable Linux equivalents, and not likely to be any anytime soon).
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New SQL Server Equivalents
Just curious as to what you think is lacking. I'm guessing "ease of administration" tools.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New I assume it's issues with add-ons.
E.g. Some business requires a particular tool that is only supported when it talks to SQL Server.

Just my guess, though.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Boxed vertical market software, I wot.
They're the bits there's no replacement for.

I have a badly organised desk drawer that's more than a match for SQL Server itself.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
New Well, sort of boxed.
Believe it or not a lot of packages, even ones with national distribution, still come as a CD tucked in the pocket of a loose leaf manual binder - just like in the old days of CP/M-80 (but it was a floppy back then).
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Ease of administration is irrelevant.
So is actual functionality of the engine.

What is important is the software house will only support it on SQL Server, or on the Windows version of some other database.

Since all specialty software has flaws and quirks it's a bad business decision not to follow the vendor's recommendations to the letter. If a problem comes up they'll grasp the first straw they see and refuse support.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New I know what it's lacking.
Standardised SQL.

It's not a problem unique to MS SQL Server, unfortunately, as *all* the database engines have their unique variant of SQL - Oracle, Sybase, even MySQL and PostGresQL. Some have fewer extensions than others, mind you, but few OTS applications are capable of talking to 'any' SQL backend: they are almost always coded to talk to a specific one. It's a bit like the home computer BASIC wars writ large.

Wade.


Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
 
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please



-- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne.

· my ·
· [link|http://staticsan.livejournal.com/|blog] ·
· [link|http://yceran.org/|website] ·

New Perhaps he meant WIDE STANCE?
[link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/28/AR2007082801664.html?hpid=topnews|Dana Milbank] at the Washington Post.

;-)

Cheers,
Scott.
New Odd phraseology.
What's "accurate but ambiguous" when it's at home?

Weasel words, methinks!


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
New Never had a problem
new install or dist upgrade. Put it on this t40, a t23, a t20 and my Gateway desktop.

IMO, Ubuntu is ready for prime time. I've had more problems installing windows.

Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
     More whining about Ubuntu. - (Another Scott) - (17)
         I don't think it's broken. - (static) - (2)
             Thanks. I'll see about trying again this weekend. -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                 apt-get dist-upgrade - (static)
         I am sure there will be some things... - (folkert) - (11)
             Hold on there, pardner. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                 Oh, don't worry about me. - (Andrew Grygus)
             I don't think that means what you seem to think it means. - (CRConrad) - (8)
                 Oh, I think he's just having a bad evening. - (Andrew Grygus) - (6)
                     SQL Server Equivalents - (admin) - (5)
                         I assume it's issues with add-ons. - (Another Scott)
                         Boxed vertical market software, I wot. - (pwhysall) - (1)
                             Well, sort of boxed. - (Andrew Grygus)
                         Ease of administration is irrelevant. - (Andrew Grygus)
                         I know what it's lacking. - (static)
                 Perhaps he meant WIDE STANCE? - (Another Scott)
         Odd phraseology. - (pwhysall)
         Never had a problem - (bepatient)

It's a lot less messy in here when Karsten's absent...
120 ms