IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New On cooking Indian food
We've never had good luck with "Indian" recipes from our cookbooks. Without fail, they smell wonderful and taste bland.

So I thought we'd try a few from Andrew's site. No luck. The potato curry was unfortunately just as bland. Sorry, Andrew.

Now you have to understand, our measuring stick is the [link|http://www.detroitrangoli.com|Rangoli restaurant] a few miles away, widely regarded by the Indian folk at work as the best one in the extended Metro area. The food there is rich, complex, and multi-layered.

So for Father's Day, my wife bought "me" (read: her) an Indian cookbook: [link|http://www.amazon.com/Lord-Krishnas-Cuisine-Vegetarian-Cooking/dp/0712637834/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-9625852-2336140?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182730527&sr=8-1|The Art Of Indian Vegetarian Cooking] by Yasmuna Devi (we have the hardcover [no, she didn't pay anywhere near $100 for it]). The author spent 8 years, some in India, learning the principles of both North and South Indian cooking. The cookbook is huge and very detailed.

My wife decided to try a dish we both enjoyed very much at the restaurant: mattar panir - basically, peas and cheese in sauce. This started with making the cheese by hand by boiling milk, and progressed through reducing a spice (processed in a food processor) and oil mix to a paste with heating, and so on.

The results were amazing: an incredibly complex, wonderful taste, very similar to what we had eaten before in the restaurant.

I'm guessing the difference had to do partially with the heated spices, but I'm not certain. I'm hoping Andrew can help shed some light on the situation.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New potato curry is bland, I use curry in potato salad
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Actually, there are many factors at work here.
Section One

Lets first take a look at mattar paneer, literally "Peas and cheese". This is a very famous dish from the cuisine of northwestern India, an area heavily influenced by the cuisines of Muslim invaders. It is completely dependent on the complexity and depth of flavor of an animal product, cheese, which has always been beyond the economic reach of the majority of the population.

This depth of flavor to which humans are very much atuned, particularly in the West, is alien to the vegetable world, though approached in the case of some nuts (many recipes for mattar paneer include also nuts.

In the Orient and Southeast Asia this depth is created in vegetable products by fermentation (of beans and grains) by yeasts, molds and by fungus. Also by direct inclusion of fungus such as shiitake mushrooms. Since animals are basically a highly advanced (or at least very complex) form of fungus there is some relationship here.

With the exception of yogurt, a concept probably imported from Persia, and pickles, fermented concoctions and fungus are specifically excluded from Indian cuisine by tradition and religion.

For all these reasons, purely vegetable foods must be treated differently and with different expectations.

Section Two

The household structure and food service are both completely different in India compared to the West - and can be imitated here only with great difficulty. The very basic requirement is for one or more persons to be involved in food preparation for most of the day, every day. This is affordable in a culture of large extended families, or to the wealthy who can afford full time servants.

We are accustomed to a soup or salad followed by one main dish, a side dish and possibly bread or rice, or the rice may be the side. With a little planning this can be accomplished by a part time cook.

In India the main dish is always bread or rice (depending on region) and it is accompanied by a number of accessory dishes and condiments. Six or more is common, and all in smaller portions than customary here.

Contrast is highly prized - thus certain dishes are deliberately bland as foils to others that are sweet, hot, or highly spiced. In particular there will always be pickles and chutneys, hot, sour and sweet, to be eaten in the order and in the amount desired by the individual.

In some areas of India this is highly structured but also intensely individualized. The thali will have rice or bread in the center and to the right the low key items all in individual bowls and to the left the accent items, also in individual bowls. A woman will be judged particularly on her choices for the left side of the thali - the condiments, chutneys, pickles, etc. Without these accents the meal can't possibly be complete.

Section Three

India is a vast subcontinent with a long history, mixed peoples and mixed religions. The cuisines of the different regions are radically different - there is no such thing as an "Indian cuisine". In each region a particular set of complimentary dishes are the standard, to be varied daily, but always in the same basic structure.

Because of this, extracting one particular dish for a Western style meal has to be done with care - it just may not work well without its pals, or it may not meet Western expectations for complexity. Great care must also be exercised in mixing and matching from different regions of India.

While India is noted for vegetarian cuisines, they predominate only in certain regions and with certain casts and to a varying degree of purity. The purest vegetarians are found in the central western region and the south eastern region, but these cuisines are very different from each other. In the northern east "vegetarian" includes fish, conveniently categorized as "fruit of the sea".

Clearly a vegetable dish designed to accompany lamb in the north west may not work particularly well on a strictly vegetarian menu. Nor will a bland southern dish of toor dal work particularly well without the fiery chili chutney that is expected to be at its side.

Conclusion

Indian recipes can work very well on the Western table, but must be carefully selected in light of individual taste, and with understanding of the cuisine they are extracted from. Some adjustments may need to be made - particularly because the portions are larger here and the contrasts will always be fewer.

In just the same way Oriental dishes are adjusted for the Western table, often by doubling or tripling the meat content over what would be normal in their place of origin.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
Expand Edited by Andrew Grygus June 24, 2007, 11:12:06 PM EDT
New An interesting article on Indians adapting Indian food . . .
. . to American conditions. [link|http://www.littleindia.com/news/142/ARTICLE/1193/2006-02-12.html|The Immigrant Thali].

Also, I've been predicting for some time that as India takes more and more outsourcing work and otherwise moves to more Western ways of working, the Indian table will also become much more westernized. It will be interesting to see how the adaptations work out.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New That's really starting to bug me
In just the same way Oriental dishes are adjusted for the Western table, often by doubling or tripling the meat content over what would be normal in their place of origin.
We went for Chinese last night. We got a huge 14-inch oval platter full of the Szechuan beef/chicken/shrimp combo, and a tiny little bowl -- barely bigger than the teacup -- of rice. I actually like rice. I'd like to have a bit more of it. And that platter was a single serving. The two of us shared it, and had enough left over for both of us to have lunch today.
===

Kip Hawley is still an idiot.

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New That makes much more sense.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
     On cooking Indian food - (admin) - (5)
         potato curry is bland, I use curry in potato salad -NT - (boxley)
         Actually, there are many factors at work here. - (Andrew Grygus) - (3)
             An interesting article on Indians adapting Indian food . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
             That's really starting to bug me - (drewk)
             That makes much more sense. - (admin)

Six harpies are singin' on the lee!
88 ms