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New Apple store staff performance, generally? + 3 Qs
I realize that this lot never needs to deal with such folk, but likely you don't want to support All your relatives, either.. right? So then: what grade do you award local "Apple Stores", from experience or trusted hearsay - on just plain Competence and delivering honest results of work claimed ??

Here's a local 'Store':

[Summary]
(Neighbor has both a Dell Beastware hP n/b and recent tiny box - plus a pair of late-model Apples - the latest being a dual-core {bitchin-black} Mac Book.)

Just before it was sleuthed-out that her woes of rootkit-hood derived from.. the fact that her WiFi had homed in on the (overpowered?) school Net across the street! and Not her allegedly max-encoded, router-filtered cable box:

[She has since gone to all-wired]
she had taken her log printouts to local Apple store (those who had sold her some 7-$Gs worth of pretty boxes and overpriced memory [just Once, that last.])

Store's #1 "Tech" honcho:
Patronizing her from the first, barely glancing at her logs and other notes - as were annotated re time/date events along the process, displaying Permissions being changed from her installed ones, etc. -

Numero Uno declared, flat-out,
~ "That's impossible; Apple cannot have a virus..!!"

{She interrupted to point out that that was not the issue - it's about clear Ownership == Rootkit by-any-other name == with sample filenames subsequently 'served' from her unit.. Asks: "Simply.. LOOK at these log printouts"}

Uno interrupts, (exact words lost in reiteration) expressing incredulity at the very thought that "Apple" ie OS-X Could Be Rooted! re The Logs: Uno then said something inane(r), very much like, "You aren't supposed to be looking here - this is Apple System material and not intended for users!"
[/summary]

So then - indistinguishable from Beastware-grade eptness and insolence. And it's in Santa Rosa CA not, say downtown-SF. Is this typical ignorant hubris that ordinary Apple users eat?

(Second query: where are the legions of Independent public-oriented techs.. out there, getting rich by Doing-good?) Gawd knoze there are grads from small college CS courses.. going Somewhere. I see (why) there would be relatively few compared with usual, because what I mean is:

Where are the 'multilinguals', those who have learned basic OS and networking principles Brand-free and well, before immersion in the fluff of Billy's CuteNames or alt punctilious *nix logic: those who should charge accordingly, more than the PFYs -- and also Deliver ??

(And 'deliver' does not mean, running a suite of malware tests, presenting bill and leaving) IGNORING (as re neighbor, twice) such obvious tasks as:

Examining basic networking config in detail
Launching a sane number of security attacks to confirm its efficacy
*Reading* logs - with comprehension

Rendering a report of, at least - a few basic points re networking setup; noting any significant alterations made to default OS config and, at least shorthand list of (any new?) items best backed-up, phrased according to user's eptness



(In the case of this user: following her immersion in arcanery for hundreds of hours, following first invasion: shorthand would have been quite adequate - and she'd have been willing to pay for any verbal handholding on any parts she Didn't grok.) Note: that wasn't an 'Apple Store' Tech; dunno if those even make house calls.. but her network config. was the major culprit - regardless if Beast/Fruitware: The Reason one Does pay for a 'house call'.

Last query: how unalterably-OFF is a s/ware disabling of the bluetooth/Airport transceiver? What's a handy way of assuring hardware OFF-ness? (Unlike earlier, apparently Airport is on-board now - you can't just yank the small card...)


Gracias, luscious-Fruit-eaters


New I can't answer the technical questions...
It's a shame that she encountered such pig-headedness. Unfortunately, it's all too common. That's why when one finds someone who knows what they're talking about and who is willing to work with you, it's a good idea to make them a friend for life. :-)

Google used to have a feature called [link|http://answers.google.com/answers/|Google Answers] which would let you pose a question, on almost any topic, and "experts" would post answers and receive a payment from you if you accepted the answer. It is impossible to vest the expertise of most people in a reasonable amount of time, though. They [link|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Answers|retired it in December].

There doesn't seem to be anything comparable out there now, but you could try looking around [link|http://www.google.com/Top/Reference/Ask_an_Expert/|here].

In Ye Olden Tymes one would attend the local Mac users group meeting and pick the brain of attendees. Perhaps one of the ones [link|http://www.mugcenter.com/surfboard#California|here] is nearby and/or has a good web site?

OS X should be pretty secure (being UNIX under the hood), but there have been [link|http://www.macintouch.com/security-osx.html|ways to get a trojan on the system]. I find it hard to believe that Apple has left gaping doorways in their network hardware (IOW, off should be off.). But browse around [link|http://www.securemac.com/|here] and/or similar sites to see what they recommend and the verified issues. File "permissions" seem to be quite often mangled a bit on our Ti PowerBook, and I'm sure it isn't infected. There may be another explanation for the weirdness that she's seeing (other than being infected). It should be possible to check it in "Target Disk Mode" when connected to a known-good Mac.

Maybe take a look at [link|http://www.clamxav.com/|ClamXAV]. It's free.

Caveat Emptor, YMMV, IANAL, etc. Good luck!

Cheers,
Scott.
New Many thanks, on behalf..
Will pass it on, test drive a couple of those next. She can use all of that nice list.

Pity that the google thing re $ for decent answers went belly up (I had 'invented' a scheme, to be called \ufffd"Info on Tap" way-back in the Osborne1 days. For exactly the same reasons as appy today: the Gaussian of the BS-factor in all new things techno.

Even had a contact for VC, some demonstrable-Pros lined up, some proposals.. but prior to The Net: it would have been a long uphill slog and, mainly - twixt that =Bizness and physics (even via leave-of-absence) - no contest. Oh Well.

Average person is still screwed, unless they follow my first Promulgation as elected-Dictator:

Thou shalt not buy anything whose basic concept of operation hath not first been grokked to medium-fullness. Tests at check-out.
(How'd that be.. to prod a dumbed-down, feckless consumer tribe back into learning stuff? eh)
No thinking? No. toy. today.

I think she shall be squared away, ere long. Has already ferreted out some good sites, developed decent instincts for separating the mountain of trivial detail from the Essential. It was probably good for the grey cells all-along, not only because:

(She no longer needs the borrowed Billy Doll + pin set; why, his visage just doesn't arise, anymore - as she heads for Ubuntu 7.04 next, on the unApples.)
Three or four pre-installs Down; a few 100M to go.


Extra appreciations for the added sleuthing,

A.



\ufffd Have since noted that, our non-\ufffd-d title has been appropriated by many. 11K+ on Google, now.

New Re: Apple store staff performance, generally? + 3 Qs
Is this typical ignorant hubris that ordinary Apple users eat?

No. Why would it be? In any population it's foolhardy to assume that an individual is particularly representative of the whole. Apple Store staff are no different.

And when Bluetooth and Airport are turned off, they're off.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
New thats why they are working in a store
they are fans who get paid. If she had went to a local lug and spotted a few folks carrying mac books she would have had a different reception. 2 types of people own macs. Mac users who grew up with the graphics and love it and nix users who like the under hood stuff. Nix users would not be working in an apple store front. The other folks dont really understand how apples now work. Off/disabled is off. Unless like moi you accidently break the antenna while trying to install a part.

thanx,
bill
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New All I meant by, "is 'off' OFF?'
- is the obvious point (I thought) that - any script which gets through security could turn it on, just as a user does (or does not); and, for all I know yet:

It could also turn it ON and return an 'OFF' when queried for status. Even moi can see how to do that, conceptually.

So yeah, one could setup a Spectrum Analyzer and make Sure. I'd prefer a removable jumper on mobo which is - impervious to s/ware alteration. And about $10K cheaper.

(And.. the above scenario need not be activated other than infrequently; the rest of the time - all looks normal. Tell me this Cannot Happen. (And I'll not believe you. Either.))

OK - guess nobody has ever really looked at, "when system is lying, by someone's design"

     Apple store staff performance, generally? + 3 Qs - (Ashton) - (5)
         I can't answer the technical questions... - (Another Scott) - (1)
             Many thanks, on behalf.. - (Ashton)
         Re: Apple store staff performance, generally? + 3 Qs - (pwhysall)
         thats why they are working in a store - (boxley) - (1)
             All I meant by, "is 'off' OFF?' - (Ashton)

When?
54 ms