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New I'm thinking...
...it was more about tone than topic
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New It's the other way around; the poor nitwit is incapable...
...of understanding what Peter writes. (Or rather, pretends to be.)

Peter complains that Vista's UAC works like shit -- i.e, fails to *do* what it sets out to do -- in large part because it's too annoying; Andrea Dear gibbers in reply about how Peter doesn't get what Vista's UAC *sets out* to do, i.e, its purpose. No, fuckwit, he's known *that* all the time -- what he's been saying all along in this thread is, it doesn't *succeed* at it. But Andrea just refuses to get that distinction.

Just re-read the thread slowly and you'll se that that's where the "problem" (as artificial and intentional as it is) lies.

And therefore fuck knows if the reason s/he/it doesn't jump down your throat is your more conciliatory (Why, BTW?) tone in that one post -- or just the fact that s/he/it is apparently not *intentionally refusing* to understand what s/he/it is reading when it is written by anyone else but Peter or me. (Could that have anything to do with the fact that most of the rest of you guys haven't yet publically declared your understanding of s/he/its $hillness?)

Personally, I think the latter seems quite a bit more likely.


[Edit: Aaargh, typo!]


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
Expand Edited by CRConrad June 5, 2007, 02:52:37 AM EDT
New You're wrong again
as I stated originally, the purpose of UAC is to limit or control the behavior of users, not to annoy admins

Admins can turn it off
Users can't turn it off if an admin has set it up on their machine
without an admin password they won't be installing whatever it was that brought up the UAC prompt

A

Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://westcottradio.org|Tune In]
New Point = Missed. Intentionally or otherwise.
bcnu,
Mikem

It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
New Thank you so much for AGAIN explaining the *purpose* of UAC.
You didn't happen to see the bit where I wrote, "doesn't get that Peter has known the *purpose* all along", did you...?

So, a big thank you also for demonstrating so brilliantly my point from the previous post -- namely, that you just plain *refuse* to understand anything Peter or I write.

Now, couldn't you do us all a favour and just not reply to stuff you don't (because you refuse to) understand? (Like, I'm sure, this post.)

Thank you.


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
New Question
Is UAC described in the official Microsoft literature as a way to "limit or control the behavior of users"? Or is it described as a way to improve the security of the system?

You could take the dodge that in order to secure the system you have to "limit or control the behavior of users", but that is an implementation detail. I believe[1] the advertised purpose of UAC is to increase security. And in that respect, it fails -- specifically because it instead implements a way to "limit or control the behavior of users".



[1] I lied. I actually know that's the [link|http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsvista/aa906022.aspx|advertised purpose].
User Account Control (UAC) is a new security component of the Microsoft\ufffd Windows Vista operating system. UAC enables users to perform common tasks as non-administrators, called standard users in Windows Vista, and as administrators without having to switch users, log off, or use Run As. <snip> By separating user and administrator functions while enabling productivity, UAC is an important enhancement for Windows Vista.
===

Kip Hawley is still an idiot.

===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Re: Question
as I said before that is how the MS spokesman at the Vista launch I attended described it
He was debating an attendee who thought UAC needed to be turned off immediately on all Vista installs

A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://westcottradio.org|Tune In]
New ahh, cascading shills
There is never an authority, and no one can ever be held accountable for claiming something, because after all, it's not like they expected anyone to believe them anyway.
New The speaker was Michael J Murphy
you can visit his blog at
[link|http://blogs.technet.com/mjmurphy|http://blogs.technet.com/mjmurphy]

A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://westcottradio.org|Tune In]
New And I'd want to do that because?
Occupation: IT Evangelist

At least you can pretend that you are looking out for the best interest of your company, and that its best interest does not necessarily coincide with the advancement of a particular technology.

Of course, you ARE pretending, since your career DOES depend on it.

This guy can't even pretend. He is a shill, with no doubt.
New Not a shill
he works for MS

A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://westcottradio.org|Tune In]
New Serious question: Are you brain damaged?
Have you been in a car accident?
Maybe a little light on oxygen for a while?

[link|http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=shill|http://www.m-w.com/c...a-search&va=shill]
New Re: Serious question: Are you brain damaged?
No

at the risk of quibbling with the dictionary, I've always had a slightly different understanding of the term
at a 3 card monte game, the 'winner' with the handful of cash who is a partner of the dealer is a shill

from Wikipedia:

A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer. The intention of the shill is, using crowd psychology, to encourage others unaware of the set-up to purchase said goods or services or support the political group's ideological claims. Shills are often employed by confidence artists and governments.

Certainly, I think that is what Chuckles means when he calls me a shill

A
Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy
Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET
All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM
Reggae, African and Caribbean Music
[link|http://westcottradio.org|Tune In]
New Ah, the wonders of Wikipedia
where if you don't like it, you get to change it.

And the wonders of focused limited definitions.

You/he promote the environment, purposefully ignoring flaws, because it benefits you.

You are both shills.

He is a directly paid one, you are indirectly since it benefits your career in general.The more people that adopt it, the more money he makes and the more likelyhood your skillset will keep you employed.

And the comment concerning brain damage was a kind one, because otherwise, you'd be displaying the ultimate skill of a shill, the ability to ignore the incredibly obvious.

Purposeful stupidity is such an endearing trait, wouldn't you say?


New I had always understood the term by his definition.
Employees aren't shills UNLESS they are on the net pretending NOT to be employees.

Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New Indeed; if they self-identify properly, they're salespeople.
New I disagree (new thread)
Created as new thread #286487 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=286487|I disagree]
New I'm ambivalent. However, in Mega$loth's case ...
they actually have a titled position of "Evangelist". I'd be pressed not to call an evangelist a shill.
bcnu,
Mikem

It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
New The problem here is you are defining a very limited user set
those on controlled machines. That isn't the majority and it certainly isn't the user set that creates most significant security problems.

Again, UAC is a "security tool" that is annoying enough to the vast majority for them to rip it out..making it not only annoying but completely ineffective.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
New "he's known" - HTH </CRC>


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
New Aaargh! Fixed, thanx. (I can has cheezburger now?)
New Can't or pretends is the same in this case
While he may not get income directly from MS sales, his career is so tightly bound to running an MS infrastructure his opinion is essentially worthless.

[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=278535|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=278535]

And since he really only pretends to be technical ie: he can follow a cookbook but does not really seem to understand what is going on under the covers, ie: the perfect Windows "tech"), you can't really expect him to have any coherent discussion on the matter.

[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=284165|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=284165]

I always wondered about "pure" IT guys. Those that are tied with supporting the entire company, doing infrastructure stuff, like file serving, authentication, email, printing, networking, backups, non-customer specific DBA, etc.

People in these positions often seem to lose focus on the company and what it needs to do to service its customers, since customer contact is so indirect to them.

They get to "tax" the organization, and incompetent people can last a lot longer than anywhere else since the group as a whole is often blamed for their mistakes, which means only a top level firing can start moving the group forward.

Seem like the perfect place for MS specific people to hang around.
New Oy you
we are customer service thank you very much, we are constantly trying to improve the customer experience doing it faster and cheaper than ever before.
thanx,
bill
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Oy back
Your customers (the real ones, not the internal ones) are the ones using your service. Your infrastructure is in direct support of your customer's active experience.

If they don't like what you have to offer, they can go to a competitor.

You don't fall into the category described above.
     Vista -- so far - (andread) - (87)
         Damning w/ faint praise - (jb4) - (86)
             Hey, I've dealt with Vista . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (85)
                 Just had my first experience with it... - (jb4) - (84)
                     I'm quite convinced they released this turkey . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                     That might be NVidia's fault. - (inthane-chan) - (82)
                         Re: That might be NVidia's fault. - (jb4) - (81)
                             fear change - (altmann) - (80)
                                 Micros~1 redefines English...Film at 11! - (jb4) - (3)
                                     Re: Micros~1 redefines English...Film at 11! - (altmann)
                                     In the version of English I speak... - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                         **chuckle** -NT - (jb4)
                                 Remind me again... You're not an MS fanboy or shill, just... - (CRConrad) - (75)
                                     No trailing slash in HR tag, Chris. -NT - (pwhysall) - (2)
                                         Yes there is, but I think there should be a space before it -NT - (drewk) - (1)
                                             Re: Yes there is, but I think there should be a space bef - (pwhysall)
                                     Hey, don't be picking on Hubert J. Farnsworth now! - (Another Scott)
                                     Seemed like a reasonable reply to me. - (hnick) - (8)
                                         You mean alt-tab; ctrl-tab is for docs within an MDI app. -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                             Ok. I don't have a windows machine at hand... - (hnick)
                                         On the surface of it, yes. - (CRConrad) - (5)
                                             Cool... - (hnick) - (4)
                                                 +10. Inciteful. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                                     Of course you did... :) -NT - (hnick)
                                                 Speak for yourself... - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                     Ummm. Yeah. -NT - (folkert)
                                     It's not easy being.... - (andread) - (61)
                                         "Works reasonably well" - (pwhysall) - (58)
                                             every microsoft advance has never exceeded reasonably well - (boxley)
                                             An interesting rating - (crazy)
                                             Not up to your usual standard... - (andread) - (54)
                                                 Re: Not up to your usual standard... - (pwhysall) - (48)
                                                     Wrong - (andread) - (47)
                                                         What are you gibbering about, you cretin? Re-read his posts! -NT - (CRConrad) - (44)
                                                             Oh, Chuckles - (andread) - (43)
                                                                 OK, so you're just not capable of reading with comprehension -NT - (CRConrad) - (42)
                                                                     Hah - (andread) - (41)
                                                                         So how is that any the less annoying? - (pwhysall) - (40)
                                                                             Wrong in caps is still wrong - (andread) - (39)
                                                                                 Which part is wrong? - (pwhysall)
                                                                                 Ok. Lets review - (bepatient) - (37)
                                                                                     "Attack Surface"?!?! Sheesh. -NT - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                                                                         At least I didn't write it :-) - (bepatient)
                                                                                         (Isn't that pretty large - on a sponge? ;-) -NT - (Ashton)
                                                                                     I LOVE the scenario where they say disabling is reasonable - (crazy) - (1)
                                                                                         That typifies the problem with UAC: - (static)
                                                                                     Well now. - (folkert) - (4)
                                                                                         Huh? - (crazy) - (3)
                                                                                             that was my understanding - (boxley)
                                                                                             I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. - (folkert) - (1)
                                                                                                 *nod* - (pwhysall)
                                                                                     Thanks Bill - (andread) - (25)
                                                                                         Re: Thanks Bill - (pwhysall) - (24)
                                                                                             I'm thinking... - (bepatient) - (23)
                                                                                                 It's the other way around; the poor nitwit is incapable... - (CRConrad) - (22)
                                                                                                     You're wrong again - (andread) - (16)
                                                                                                         Point = Missed. Intentionally or otherwise. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                         Thank you so much for AGAIN explaining the *purpose* of UAC. - (CRConrad)
                                                                                                         Question - (drewk) - (12)
                                                                                                             Re: Question - (andread) - (11)
                                                                                                                 ahh, cascading shills - (crazy) - (10)
                                                                                                                     The speaker was Michael J Murphy - (andread) - (9)
                                                                                                                         And I'd want to do that because? - (crazy) - (8)
                                                                                                                             Not a shill - (andread) - (7)
                                                                                                                                 Serious question: Are you brain damaged? - (crazy) - (6)
                                                                                                                                     Re: Serious question: Are you brain damaged? - (andread) - (5)
                                                                                                                                         Ah, the wonders of Wikipedia - (crazy) - (4)
                                                                                                                                             I had always understood the term by his definition. - (bepatient) - (3)
                                                                                                                                                 Indeed; if they self-identify properly, they're salespeople. -NT - (jake123)
                                                                                                                                                 I disagree (new thread) - (crazy)
                                                                                                                                                 I'm ambivalent. However, in Mega$loth's case ... - (mmoffitt)
                                                                                                         The problem here is you are defining a very limited user set - (bepatient)
                                                                                                     "he's known" - HTH </CRC> -NT - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                                                         Aaargh! Fixed, thanx. (I can has cheezburger now?) -NT - (CRConrad)
                                                                                                     Can't or pretends is the same in this case - (crazy) - (2)
                                                                                                         Oy you - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                                                             Oy back - (crazy)
                                                                                     Another way to disable UAC - TweakUAC. - (Another Scott)
                                                         the mac commercial explains it very well :-) -NT - (boxley)
                                                         I've got a Mac running OS X - (pwhysall)
                                                 Consider. - (static) - (4)
                                                     Vista popularity. - (Silverlock) - (3)
                                                         There have been lines. - (folkert) - (2)
                                                             So, knowing that many are paying $250 . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
                                                                 There is. - (folkert)
                                             And that's only the surface... - (scoenye)
                                         Ah. Jealous, because you can't figure... - (CRConrad)
                                         best explaination of the UAC so far - (boxley)

Plumbing is not coding. There is no concept of rolling back the previously saved version of the house.
226 ms