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New Dunno.
IME, it seems that placing a bid with my max too early isn't a way to win because someone with sniping software will win it by spending the next bid increment. Placing the bid at the last moment seems to be a better strategy on popular items.

Another advantage of using sniping software is that the bid can be placed at inconvenient times, like when you're sleeping or at work.

I never would have gotten this Fujitsu P7120d without using sniping software (I bid on several without it). YMMV.

Cheers,
Scott.
New No.
Here's how I work eBay. I'm never, ever sniped. I might be outbid, but I don't care about that. Here's why.

I identify the item I want. I decide the absolute maximum I am willing to pay for it. This is my "maximum bid". I will not exceed this figure. If I really want an item, I may well decide on a figure in excess of what appears to be the market value for the item. This excess is my premium that I am willing to pay to secure the item.

I may not place my maximum bid at the start of the auction. I will generally leave it for a couple of days before the close, just in case the seller needs to contact me or vice versa.

I then place my maximum (remember, kids, "maximum bid" means "the most I am prepared to pay") bid and then ignore the auction.

When the auction closes, I have won the item. Or not. If I didn't, it's because someone was prepared to pay more than me. This is key. Even if someone is willing to pay just a dollarpound or two more, that's in excess of my maximum bid.

If you're not winning items, you're not assessing their value and deciding your maximum bid properly. Sniping software is pointless and you will never, ever outbid someone with a larger maximum bid than you.

You would have won the camera had you decided your maximum bid correctly, and bid it.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
New Laptop.
:-)

You gave a good explanation of how it's supposed to work. But it often doesn't work that way in practice, especially on popular items.

If I decide I'm willing to spend $50 for a Confabulator 3000, I probably would be willing to spend $50.51. That's why picking a "Maximum Bid" is difficult.

There are also comfort levels that impact sniping. You need to estimate how close you can come to the end time before placing your bid. If you've got a fast, low latency, connection you'll be able to outsnipe others on dialup or cans-and-string. If you have a large enough bid, of course.

"But you just proved my point!" No. Because without sniping software, I have to be available to place my bid at an appropriate time. Bidding, it seems to me, generally goes higher on an item that has lots of early bids than on an item that doesn't. To pay the minimum, it generally is beneficial to bid as late as possible. The group psychology drives the price and I want to pay the minimum, not just less than my maximum.

(And yes, that's just my impression.)

So, IMO, it's not just "Set your max bid and be done with it". Looking at the recent eBay history of P7120d laptop sales shows they've gone for between $910 and $1270. There are configuration differences between them (color, optical drive, HD, RAM). My guess is that the majority of the winners used sniping software.

Your mileage obviously varies.

Cheers,
Scott.
New You misunderstand the system.
Don't think too hard about what everyone else is willing to pay. Are you willing to pay $51.50, or do you really mean you're willing to pay $52.00? Don't forget that if I really want or need an item, I budget a bit more than the thing is worth in order to secure it.

At the end of the day, items go for what people are prepared to pay. Popular items go for more than unpopular items of a similar type. You do not need sniping software. You only need sniping software if you are unable to decide how much you are willing to pay for an item.

It's really, really simple. Do your valuation for yourself, not for others - after all, it's your money you're spending, not theirs. Don't go thinking "if I bid late I'll get a bargain" because if one of the other bidders is like me, you won't; your sniping software will simply outbid me by the bid increment and you'll end up paying pretty much what you would have paid had you simply placed your maximum bid (remember, eBay autobids in increments up to your maximum bid, not your whole maximum bid immediately) but you've gone through a whole load of unnecessary sweat and bother.

eBay is exactly "set your max bid and be done with it". Note that that's not "set your max bid at the beginning of the auction", though; as I said, I tend to bid towards the end of an auction.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
New No, I understand it.
Yes, the item will go to the person who has the largest bid in at the end of the auction. If I were able to reliably say that I will be willing to pay $52 and will not be willing to pay $52.01, then it wouldn't be an issue. In my case, the cutoff is rarely sharp. I find it frustrating to set a bid for $52.01 and having someone get it for $52.52 because I wasn't able to revise my bid before the end of the auction (due to time constraints).

(Change $52.01 to X and $52.52 to X + 0.51 as desired.)

[link|http://www.jbidwatcher.com/|JBidWatcher] is free (though I did send him some money). It works well and gives me a good feeling. I like being able to set up a bid-time and letting it go. I like knowing that I won't easily get sniped, and I won't drive up the price early, but I recognize that perhaps I'll be outbid.

Perhaps faith in it is similar to faith in pink teapots hiding behind Jupiter, but it seems to work well for me.

Cheers,
Scott.
New These people are a different species
An inability to quantify the value of an object to themselves indicates lack of awareness and control of their own feelings, beliefs and instincts. In other words, they aren't sentient beings. They lack one of characterstic abilities of Homo Sapiens. They must be a different species.
Matthew Greet


Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
New you have never been to a real auction have you?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New I have.
I agree with Matt.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
New Yes, but so?
Instead of buyers bidding till the price exceeds their limit, eBay does it for them in the same way non-virtual auctioneers can bid from a book till those stated limits are reached.

Perhaps there are people who can't quantify their maximum bid price in non-virtual, as well as virtual, auctions. Their attendance in non-virtual auctions makes them true, sentient beings after all, how?
Matthew Greet


Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
New they made it there without killing themselves
or others. They made a living to show up with the wherewithall to buy the item. You dont see orangutans at an auction. You see people paying extroidinary amounts well in excess of the value of the item in the excitement. Not everyone can remain calm and sensible when it comes to money. If they did the american economy would have tanked years ago.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New ICBOxleianLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #284035 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=284035|ICBOxleianLRPD]


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
New So, most Americans aren't truly sentient?
Matthew Greet


Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
New Wow, how practical! No need to...
...re-direct the thread or anything, it's already in the correct forum.


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
New I notice...
...you don't dispute the point.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
New Why would he?
It's not like he's an American or anything....
New you live in UK so how fucking sentient does that make you
60+ million living under a microscope with a camera for every 14 people watching your every move, rather like an ant farm than a country. 10k years ago your ancestors were living in trees, painting themselves blue and gibbering at the romans who gave up trying to knock sentience into you and left. While I on the otherhand 10k years ago my ancestors were living in trees, painting themselves blue and gibbering at the romans who gave up trying to knock sentience into us and left.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Muahaha.
Thanks for biting, Bill.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
[image|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png|0|Darwinia||]
New ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #284255 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=284255|ICLRPD]
jb4
"It's hard for me, you know, living in this beautiful White House, to give you a firsthand assessment."
George W. Bush, when asked if he believed Iraq was in a state of civil war (Newsweek, 26 Feb 07)
New s/Americans/humans
New I practically grew up at them.
And, yes, the system Peter and Matt propound is the only *sensible* one... But people being people, I'd say it's the ones who *don't* get caught up in the excitement that aren't human.

On the gripping hand, though, if I understand the incremental "up-to-my-max" bid system correctly, then I'd think that does pretty much exactly what "sniping software" does, so I don't get the need for that.

On the hind foot, BTW, I wonder if those REALLY big players you (don't!) see at REALLY big auctions -- van Goghs going for 60 mill at Sotheby's, that sort of thing -- leave their bids over the phone not JUST to remain anonymous, but also partly precisely in order to insulate themselves from the auction excitement (having the auction clerks doing the job of e-Bay's incremental-bid software for them).

Oh yeah, almost forgot: ObFuck off and die, asshole!


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603|Jehovah]
     FUCK! eBay sniper got me in the last 16 seconds - (drewk) - (30)
         Bummer. JBidWatcher works well. -NT - (Another Scott)
         What the HELL were you Bidding ON, ID10T?! -NT - (folkert)
         Just bid max and be done with it - (warmachine)
         Max bid insufficient. - (pwhysall) - (26)
             Dunno. - (Another Scott) - (19)
                 No. - (pwhysall) - (18)
                     Laptop. - (Another Scott) - (17)
                         You misunderstand the system. - (pwhysall) - (16)
                             No, I understand it. - (Another Scott)
                             These people are a different species - (warmachine) - (14)
                                 you have never been to a real auction have you? -NT - (boxley) - (13)
                                     I have. - (pwhysall)
                                     Yes, but so? - (warmachine) - (10)
                                         they made it there without killing themselves - (boxley) - (9)
                                             ICBOxleianLRPD (new thread) - (CRConrad)
                                             So, most Americans aren't truly sentient? -NT - (warmachine) - (7)
                                                 Wow, how practical! No need to... - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                                     I notice... - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                         Why would he? - (jake123)
                                                 you live in UK so how fucking sentient does that make you - (boxley) - (2)
                                                     Muahaha. - (pwhysall)
                                                     ICLRPD (new thread) - (jb4)
                                                 s/Americans/humans -NT - (inthane-chan)
                                     I practically grew up at them. - (CRConrad)
             Except ... - (drewk) - (5)
                 Re: Except ... - (pwhysall)
                 Outbid? Market is out of your range. - (warmachine)
                 Lately, I mostly do auctions as a last resort. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                     Determined people are what auctions are all about. -NT - (folkert)
                 Knowing your market helps heaps - - (Ashton)

Keep up the good work. Those dark sides need more advertising.
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